BORN INTO THIS - so-called poet friends

[Rekrab]

I hate to even ask this, but I can't help it. In the audio commentary for BORN INTO THIS, the director says (I'm paraphrasing) "If you want to read a biography, I'd recommend Neeli Cherkovsky's HANK...it's the best...if you only read one biography, that's the one you should read...I emphatically recommend that you not read any of the memoirs by so-called poet friends...some of these poets are bitter because Bukowski made it big and they didn't, and the books are riddled with inaccuracies...and I know John Martin and Linda Bukowski agree with me on this..." I did a great big "Whoa!" when I ran across this. I stopped the tape, it hit me so hard. I actually got a sick feeling in my gut. For one paranoid second, I thought maybe I was included in that list of so-called poet friends for my little memoir CHARLES BUKOWSKI SPIT IN MY FACE, but soon realized he probably didn't have me specifically in mind (although I might be lumped in among writers to avoid). My chapbook is pretty low profile on the market, and I never claimed to have been a friend of Bukowski's, and I'm not bitter about his success, so I got over that. Still, it feels like a heavy-handed statement, one that was premeditated and planted in the commentary. I'm speculating here, but it feels like something the director promised Martin and/or Linda he would mention. Part of my sick feeling was that it reveals the pervasive cultural power structure at work: putting someone in their place, telling the masses what to think, and I find that a bit disgusting. I'd like to think Bukowski fans can think for themselves, and don't need to be told what to read, what to believe. Anyway, my reason for bringing it up here is simply to ask if anyone has any inside information or guesses on who would be on that list of poet-friends whose memoirs are to be avoided? I don't think it's Steve Richmond and his SPINNING OFF BUKOWSKI because he's in the film and the director says he likes him. I hope it's not A. D. Winans for his THE HOLD GRAIL: BUKOWSKI AND THE SECOND COMING REVOLUTION. I'm 38 pages into that book and enjoying it. It seems honest and fair, and is rich in interesting details about his experiences with Buk. I've heard some criticism of the book, claims that he is bitter, which lead me to believe he may be one of the writer's being advised against in the film. I don't sense any bitterness in Winan's narrative so far. Any ideas on what books are being targeted in the commentary? Am I sticking my foot in my mouth even asking a question like this?

By the way, I still highly recommend BORN INTO THIS. It's a well-made film.

 

[cirerita]

I think they would probably include Sherman chapbook in that "so-called poet friends" lot...

 

[Rekrab]

Ah...I hadn't even considered that one. Yes, you're right. But Sherman is a successful western fiction author. Not the same as a great poet, though, so bitterness is possible. I'll have to reread Sherman's book. Thanks.

 

[cirerita]

they were probably thinking of John Thomas & Philomene Long book as well, and maybe Jim Christy's book, who knows?

 

[Rekrab]

I haven't read John Thomas's book yet, so I wasn't sure if it met the "bitterness" test. He certainly was a friend. Christy's book is one they might single out for disdain, but he wasn't a friend...never met Buk. Nor is it bitter. More like hero-worship with dirty photos (which I find more humorous than offensive).

I'll start a list of possibilities. I'm not suggesting any of these are actually what was being referred to by the filmmaker:

Winans
Sherman
Christy

 

[bospress.net]

Hi,
Locklin could also have been on that list, although I think that would be unfair, it should be mentioned. GIven the publication of the scathing poem a few books back, that was very thinly veiled about Gerald, it would not surprise me if Lock was included in that bunch, although I never knew him to be bitter towards Buk in any way.

Bill

 

[cirerita]

I wouldn't include Locklin for MANY reasons, but that's me, though I'm almost sure they wouldn't include him... anyway, this is pure speculation, isn't it?

 

[bospress.net]

My understanding is that Locklin had a bit of a falling out with Linda after Hank's death, so it is always possible.

 

[Rekrab]

Personally, I ruled out Locklin because he was indeed a true friend of Hank's (one of the few poets tolerated by Bukowski) and I've never heard anything about any bitterness on his part. However, I have yet to read Locklin's BUKOWSKI, A SURE BET, which I just got. Maybe I'll think differently after reading it. But like Bill says, he may be on their list, given the scathing poem. Yes, cirerita, this is pure speculation. I wouldn't want anyone to assume WE would put any of these poets/memoirists on such a list of books to be avoided. My philosophy is that everyone deserves a fair hearing. Especially anyone who knew Bukowski firsthand. It strikes me as highly ironic that the filmmaker, who never met Bukowski, is making judgements on the accuracy of accounts. How would he know what's true and what isn't? Is it because people close to Bukowski with personal interests in his reputation told him so? Of course, there is such a thing as historical fact that can be researched, documentation, all that, but quite often things are not what they seem to be from the "facts", and people have axes to grind, memories are faulty, people get confused, there is wishful thinking, revisionism, all that murkiness. I say read all the accounts, and then decide for yourself what to believe.

I'm thinking this list might be a bad idea. I don't wanna get sued. Keep the list in your head.

 

[cirerita]

I don't wanna get sued. Keep the list in your head.

that would happen in the U.S. only :D But you do live in the U.S., so you just never know.

Bill,
when I interviewed Locklin back in 2001 he mentioned to me his falling out with Linda and I believe he blamed JD for that, though he NEVER said so explicitly (you gotta be careful with what you say or you might be sued. I know, bad joke :p )

 

[bospress.net]

I'm trying to think of who JD is.... is it JoDu?


Bill

 

[cirerita]

yep

 

[mjp]

The book Linda really hated was Ben Pleasants' Visceral Bukowski. I wrote a little blab about it in the San Pedro blog over a year ago:

http://laharbor.blogspot.com/2005/04/envy-is-dog-from-hell.html

 

[bospress.net]

Hi,
mjp, you are right. I got a copy of a letter that she sent to Ben about this. She was very strong in her dislike for him, especially after this book was published....

Bill

 

[hank solo]

Funny if Linda really thinks that the Cherkovski bio is the best - Bukowski himself said that Cherkovski didn't do a good job with it. In fact I think he said it was pretty much unreadable. I can't comment, having not read it. I found the Sounes bio a good read, although obviously he's another biographer who never met Bukowski.

I'm with you David, read them all, decide for yourself.

 

[Rekrab]

It's funny, but as soon as I heard that advice in B.I.T. about "avoid the memoirs by so-called poet friends" (paraphrased), I went on a mission to find and read them all. Nothing is as motivating as being told not to do something .. ask any three year old.

 

[Ponder]

I had the same feeling. I ordered a bunch of memoirs, bio's.

I started in Richmond's Spinning off, today. I like it so far.

 

[roni]

I don't find it wrong to give recommendations for books. Esp in a case where there are so many books to chose from - and not everybody around is such a big sucker as we are and starts reading Everything on or from one author.

What strikes me more about this recommendation is, to favour Neelis book at all. It is a good read, yes. It was the first bio to be based on something like a serious research, yes. But people like Sounes have definitely done a more decent work in matters of research. And even corrected some of Neeli's.

What do you think? What is the most reliable bio?

 

[Bukfan]

I've read Neeli's, Sounes, Miles and Malone's (Malone's is the worst of these four bio's).
I think Sounes is the best so far. It seems well researched and is probably the most reliable. Miles bio is not as good but he does have some info, not to be found in Sounes. Neeli's is interesting because he's the only bio writer who actually knew Buk...

 

[Ponder]

Just finished Spinning off Bukowski. I find it a good contribution and well written.

 

[Rekrab]

I think Richmond's SPINNING OFF BUKOWSKI is one of the best things ever written about him. To me, it really captures the guy.

By the way, Steve wrote a satirical piece called CHARLENE RUBINSKI. It's been many years since I read it, so I won't attempt to summarize it (I couldn't), but I recall enjoying it immensely. It was pubished as a chapbook and is probably pretty rare.

And then it seems to my weak old brain there's another, unpublished book that Steve wrote on Buk. I read it in manuscript. Don't recall the title, but I have it here somewhere (I know, I say that about all my sources.) I'll take a look for that ...

 

[Rekrab]

Okay. Consulting my files, the Steve Richmond manuscript I saw was a short, apparently autobiographical novel called "The Jovial", and it had a character in it named "Ivan Boraxski" that seemed to be a take off on Bukowski. The book was not solely about Buk, but he figured in it. I saw the mansucript in 1984. As far as I know, it is unpublished. I recall liking it, and would have published it if I had the money. Just thought you Bukowski scholars would want to know about this.

 

[jordan]

i got annoyed with miles quoting from bukowski's novels to reconstruct his childhood (i put it down after 40 pages, so i don't know if it gets better as it goes into his adulthood). the novels are fiction based on a true story, but still fiction, or at least fictionalized.

 

[Kisa2674]

It's weird--just last night I was on another Buk site and someone referred to Neeli as Hank's "former friend". Anyone know what that's about? I never heard of a falling out but who knows. I know Buk is gone but that doesn't make someone your "former" friend just as I am not his former fan.

 

[mjp]

last night I was on another Buk site...

Clearly you are mistaken, as there is no other Bukowski site.

Thank you.

 

[bospress.net]

It's weird--just last night I was on another Buk site and someone referred to Neeli as Hank's "former friend". Anyone know what that's about? I never heard of a falling out but who knows. I know Buk is gone but that doesn't make someone your "former" friend just as I am not his former fan.

Hank and Neeli were friends up to his death. The term "former" is a bit deceiving. Certainly with Hank dead, Neeli is not hanging with him, but they maintained a close friendship up to Hank's death.

 

[Kisa2674]

Bospress, that's exactly what I thought. Marina isn't his "former" daughter simply because he's gone. Poor choice of words but it shook me up a bit. Thought I was way out of the loop, haha.

Clearly you are mistaken, as there is no other Bukowski site.

Thank you.

You are correct in many ways. Officially apologize.

 

[number6horse]

Clearly you are mistaken, as there is no other Bukowski site.

Thank you.

Gee, none of us saw this response coming all the way up Western Ave, did we ;)

 

[Rekrab]

This is the only Bukowski site. How could anything else compare? Every day I check my email, this site, and search for a few books on Ebay, Amazon & ABE.

 

[Kisa2674]

This is the best site and just getting the responses---just getting to TALK about Buk. No one I know likes him or even knows who he is. When my ex-husband read "Post Office", he said he "didn't get it" and that he couldn't find anything in there for him. I have almost all of his collections. He loved my passion for him but just didn't care about what he had to say because he felt he didn't have anything to say.
When my mom got sick, I slept with "Love is a Dog From Hell" for two months. And when she died, the first thing I did was grab "Slouching Toward Nirvana" and "Run with the Hunted" and didn't put them down for months. When my daughter was born, the first poem she was ever read was "Marina". And now I am going back to his letters, his interviews, his poetry, and I am reading "Ham on Rye" again to get me through this divorce. A lot of people wouldn't get that but knowing there was once this ratty old man who wrote until he was wrung dry and then some, and that I read those words and they still perfectly articulate my feelings so know I understand them, too. I simply feel so lucky that I didn't read him and brush him off with an "I don't get it."