The Worthless Thread
- Thread starter Ponder
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I play sports left handed, but do everything else righty.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
I have a guitar and I am left handed.
I always regretted having learned as a right hand player. My rythm really sucks.
I always regretted having learned as a right hand player. My rythm really sucks.
I've had this discussion with many people (all of whom seem to share your view). By far the more "coordination-challenging" portion of playing a stringed instrument is in establishing a consistent rhythmic pattern; thus use of the right hand to strum or pluck by right-handed people. I'm not saying that fingering the notes is easy, but that the motor skills that are controlled by handedness are largely in play when it comes to establishing the meter as opposed to the melody or harmonic structure. (And clearly there are elements of all three in what both hands are doing.)
mjp
Founding member
Yeah, you know, you're right. "what both hands are doing" might be key there, because it's really a big melange of different motor and cognitive skills that goes far beyond what your hand happens to be doing at any given time.
You know, especially when you play something intricate that requires fine motor skills - like punk rock.
But it really does go way past your hands, especially if you start throwing other gadgets into the mix. You can't just stick your foot on a wah pedal and rock it back and forth along with the beat. There's a whole other aesthetic at work there. And then on top of that, if you give a crap about playing in sync with the other musicians who may happen to be in the room, you have to be paying attention to them too...
Jesus, I'm glad no one ever told me all of that when I was 15 or I never would have even picked up a guitar. It sounds like a lot of work.
You know, especially when you play something intricate that requires fine motor skills - like punk rock.
But it really does go way past your hands, especially if you start throwing other gadgets into the mix. You can't just stick your foot on a wah pedal and rock it back and forth along with the beat. There's a whole other aesthetic at work there. And then on top of that, if you give a crap about playing in sync with the other musicians who may happen to be in the room, you have to be paying attention to them too...
Jesus, I'm glad no one ever told me all of that when I was 15 or I never would have even picked up a guitar. It sounds like a lot of work.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
It seems to me that rythm is most important. Even if you end up playing out of sync from the main rythm in a band, you'll somehow place that wild strum at a specific time to break that rythm, giving the main rythm an even more intense presence.
I don't know if this makes any sense but I am actually trying to say something that I mean. :D Or is it that I mean what I am trying to say?
I don't know if this makes any sense but I am actually trying to say something that I mean. :D Or is it that I mean what I am trying to say?
As so often occurs, it's difficult for me to separate the sarcasm from the self-deprication and/or the agreement, if, in fact, there is any from your point of view. In any case, it is a lot of work. Nothing worth listening to is created from no effort; notice I have excluded no genre of music here. Personally, I'm glad I learned this before I was 15, or I'd be bored to death by it all.
No matter the style of music one plays, and this gets to BlackSwan's point below, the rhythm is by far the most important for coherent music. Be the rhythm on or off the beat or anywhere in between, if it works, it works. My point being that the dominant hand (i.e., right or left-handedness) is the hand to make this happen.
The subltlety of fingering notes is more easily learned in the weak hand than is a strong sense of rhythm.
A wild strum may or may not work, but a well-timed wild strum is the shit.
mjp
Founding member
Dude, that's my charm!
Only the last sentence was meant to be funny/sarcastic. Wait, and the "intricate fine motor skills punk rock" bit.
Otherwise I was agreeing with you. You convinced me.
Excuse me, stewardess, I speak mjp jive.
Edited to add: Truth be told, you're about as charming as a syphillitic Irishman on a boat to America in 1847. But my great, great grandparents did that, so it doesn't make you a bad person. I would add that I don't believe that they were syphillitic.
Edited to add: Truth be told, you're about as charming as a syphillitic Irishman on a boat to America in 1847. But my great, great grandparents did that, so it doesn't make you a bad person. I would add that I don't believe that they were syphillitic.
mjp
Founding member
Well see here lad, that's why yer stoopid! Yer Irish!
Some of me way-backs was from the Dubs as well, and not only did they come over syphilitic and larcenous, they went against every rule of GOD and man and mated with natives when they got here. Aye, 'tis a weak and idiotic lineage to be sure. How such bright and cracklin' genius as meself was progeny of willfully ignorant peasants and great plains savages will remain a mystery til the end of times.
But I can swear to you without reserve that every last one of me way backs, from Armagh county to Wicklow county to the badlands of South Dakota, not a one of them, was a leftie. Truth be told, I wouldn't trust a leftie to wash me dogs. And me dogs, they really need a scrubbin', I ain't lyin'.
Some of me way-backs was from the Dubs as well, and not only did they come over syphilitic and larcenous, they went against every rule of GOD and man and mated with natives when they got here. Aye, 'tis a weak and idiotic lineage to be sure. How such bright and cracklin' genius as meself was progeny of willfully ignorant peasants and great plains savages will remain a mystery til the end of times.
But I can swear to you without reserve that every last one of me way backs, from Armagh county to Wicklow county to the badlands of South Dakota, not a one of them, was a leftie. Truth be told, I wouldn't trust a leftie to wash me dogs. And me dogs, they really need a scrubbin', I ain't lyin'.
reasonknot
Founding member
i cut meat with my right hand and then take the bite with my left.which hand do i write with?
funny that the same person that speaks of 'not mentioning styles'Allows himself to borrow so easily,phrases likeIn any case'
funny that the same person that speaks of 'not mentioning styles'Allows himself to borrow so easily,phrases likeIn any case'
judging by that post, I'm guessing you don't use any hand to write with, but have fashioned together some sort of pulley and hook system to stab at the keyboard that you haven't quite perfected yet.
or maybe you've just been drinking.
but really, I hope you are using the pulley and hook.
It's also funny that dentist drills and wallpaper paste aren't astronauts.
mjp
Founding member
How do you get the possum to stay still while you cut it?
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
I mash his head first.
I'm right-handed but I 'shake' with my left-hand. I know, waaaay too much information.
My older brother write and paint with the left hand . Play`s guitar with the right hand and eat with the right hand.
He`s born in the fiftys and in german school at this time the teachers find that`s not normal to be a lefty . They tried to bring him to use the "right " hand . What a bullshit ! He never learned .
He`s born in the fiftys and in german school at this time the teachers find that`s not normal to be a lefty . They tried to bring him to use the "right " hand . What a bullshit ! He never learned .
nervas
more crickets than friends
Jaysus! Reading all these posts, I'm jealous! I can't do anything with my left hand. Never have been able to, though I type as fast with my left as my right, so wait, now I feel better. My dad actually does everything with his right hand, except write. He writes left handed and always has, but everything else with the right hand, weirdo!
reasonknot
Founding member
i play my harp with my right hand and drink with my left hand .I have a worm farm and only sometimes make time to visit the computer, thinking that it might be better than riding out the dumb silence.but its alright ma',i'm only bleeding
mjp
Founding member
In the two years since Purple Stickpin first enlightened me on the importance of the right hand, I've been watching those right hands a lot more than I used to (and thinking about what my own right hand is doing when I pick up a guitar).
Most of the rhythm is in the right hand, yes. But it would also seem to me that most of what makes a player distinctive, or gives them their unique style is in the right hand as well. The truth of the thing, as was pointed out earlier, is that it's the hands working together that make for style. But there are limitations on how many ways you can do something on the fretboard (left hand), but no such limitations on the right.
Apropos of nothing currently being discussed, but I was thinking about it, so here it is.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Another way of saying the same thing is that how you play the notes is more important to a distinctive style than the notes themselves. To a point, I agree. Fluidity comes mainly from the strumming/plucking hand (assuming the fingering hand can keep up, of course) and fluidity (or, I suppose, a lack of fluidity) is almost synonymous with style. But the choice of notes and voicings contribute too. Purely chordal? Are the chords played in open position or closed position of many notes or with many inversions and only using selected notes of the chords? Scalar? Riff-based? Chord voicings mixed with scalar elements?
At the end of the day, the distinctiveness of the style and which hand contributes most to it is likely dependent upon what the style is. (This is in contrast to my earlier post where I indicated that the dominant hand is most important in establishing a coherent rhythm. So, you need the dominant hand to establish rhythm, which contributes to distinctive style, but this may or may not be the dominant force in establishing distinctiveness of overall style.)
Take punk or reggae as examples. In general, the note choices in punk are much more limited than in many other genres of music (I say this not to denegrate the genre, but it's pretty clear that you don't have many folks playing punk who know six or seven different voicings of a Major 7th chord up and down the neck - come to think of it, you likely don't have Major 7ths chord in punk). So, the strumming hand becomes most important because what the fingering hand is doing is fairly limited. Thus for punk, the dominant hand would contribute most to distinctiveness of style.
Reggae is more sophisticated than most punk, but not overly so. It's a beat-driven music based most often on relatively simple arrangements with many fairly standard chord voicings. Again, the right hand contributes more to style because the left hand isn't generally doing "ground-breaking" things. Again, not to denegrate (I spent many nights sweating at the L & G club in New London, CT to great national and international reggae acts).
Now consider Prog - Steve Howe of Yes and Robert Fripp of King Crimson, for example. Their right-hand technique isn't vastly different, but their note choices and chord voicings are quite dissimilar. I would argue that the non-dominant hand, their left hands, contribute more to their individual distinctiveness of style than do their right hands.
At the end of the day, the distinctiveness of the style and which hand contributes most to it is likely dependent upon what the style is. (This is in contrast to my earlier post where I indicated that the dominant hand is most important in establishing a coherent rhythm. So, you need the dominant hand to establish rhythm, which contributes to distinctive style, but this may or may not be the dominant force in establishing distinctiveness of overall style.)
Take punk or reggae as examples. In general, the note choices in punk are much more limited than in many other genres of music (I say this not to denegrate the genre, but it's pretty clear that you don't have many folks playing punk who know six or seven different voicings of a Major 7th chord up and down the neck - come to think of it, you likely don't have Major 7ths chord in punk). So, the strumming hand becomes most important because what the fingering hand is doing is fairly limited. Thus for punk, the dominant hand would contribute most to distinctiveness of style.
Reggae is more sophisticated than most punk, but not overly so. It's a beat-driven music based most often on relatively simple arrangements with many fairly standard chord voicings. Again, the right hand contributes more to style because the left hand isn't generally doing "ground-breaking" things. Again, not to denegrate (I spent many nights sweating at the L & G club in New London, CT to great national and international reggae acts).
Now consider Prog - Steve Howe of Yes and Robert Fripp of King Crimson, for example. Their right-hand technique isn't vastly different, but their note choices and chord voicings are quite dissimilar. I would argue that the non-dominant hand, their left hands, contribute more to their individual distinctiveness of style than do their right hands.
mjp
Founding member
Interestingly enough, both punk and reggae frequently use what is technically called glissando, which is a fruity way of saying sliding from one note or chord to the next. I was thinking about that (and vibrato and hammer-ons) when I said it's really a combination of the hands on a string instrument. There's also something else that we haven't mentioned, and that is the player's internal clock. Their inborn rhythm. Everyone's is different.
But as far as chord voicings, those musical styles are both relatively limited because they both have their roots in the blues. Punk - and all rock and roll - use plenty of alternate chord voicings, but they're used mostly to simplify the chords. The Beatles used a lot of chords that you might not associate with blues-based rock and roll, which is why I could never make their god damn songs sound right when I tried to play them as a kid.
The thing that really got me thinking about this again is guys like Ron Asheton and Johnny Thunders, who were not great musicians by anyone's definition, but who had very distinctive styles that are utterly impossible to completely emulate. You would expect it to be difficult to play like Steve Howe or Robert Fripp, but it's just as difficult to play like Asheton or Thunders (and very easy to play like Johnny Ramone, since he utilized only one "technique" - speed).
But this is all nostalgia anyway, since most music now is so processed and timelocked that much of the distinctiveness of things like guitar and bass has been lost.
But as far as chord voicings, those musical styles are both relatively limited because they both have their roots in the blues. Punk - and all rock and roll - use plenty of alternate chord voicings, but they're used mostly to simplify the chords. The Beatles used a lot of chords that you might not associate with blues-based rock and roll, which is why I could never make their god damn songs sound right when I tried to play them as a kid.
The thing that really got me thinking about this again is guys like Ron Asheton and Johnny Thunders, who were not great musicians by anyone's definition, but who had very distinctive styles that are utterly impossible to completely emulate. You would expect it to be difficult to play like Steve Howe or Robert Fripp, but it's just as difficult to play like Asheton or Thunders (and very easy to play like Johnny Ramone, since he utilized only one "technique" - speed).
But this is all nostalgia anyway, since most music now is so processed and timelocked that much of the distinctiveness of things like guitar and bass has been lost.
Everyone in my family is a lefty except my mom. I started life out as a lefty, but a horrible electrical accident rendered my left hand out of commission during the time I was learning to write - so now I'm a righty but I hold my pen/pencil like a lefty. Very confusing. My left hand was burned to a crisp and was in bandages for months. That will teach me to stick a bobby pin into an electrical socket though. (I thought I could crimp my Dawn doll's hair if I heated up the wavy part of the bobby pin - and since you "plug in" a curling iron, it seemed reasonable to plug the bobby pin in as well...) 5-year-olds are the stupidest humanoids among us.