Publishing oneself - thoughts?
- Thread starter Electric Sister
- Start date
I've been self-publishing since the early 1990s and it wasn't until I really stepped it up, quality wise, and made true artists' books before anyone really cared. I never made more than one every year or 2 and I never made more than 50 copies. They were always hand made. The early ones were shit though. They consisted of xeroxes and hand-pasted color copies of art. I drew original shit in some of them, but they were just stapled down the middle and the poetry and stories were just horrible. I had no sense of self-editing at all. I was also in my 20s and thought I knew what I was doing. I probably only sold 10 per edition and gave the rest away.
By 2005 I partnered up with MJP to make a real artists' book with letterpress pages and super nice papers, etc. The Getty Museum bought one, among other fancypants collections. So when Jordan originally piped in and was talking about making your book special and making a quality product - that is the best advice you can get. He's absolutely right. A special, high quality, small edition book can really go a long way and stand out far beyond any stupid xeroxed zine.Woohoo!
By 2005 I partnered up with MJP to make a real artists' book with letterpress pages and super nice papers, etc. The Getty Museum bought one, among other fancypants collections. So when Jordan originally piped in and was talking about making your book special and making a quality product - that is the best advice you can get. He's absolutely right. A special, high quality, small edition book can really go a long way and stand out far beyond any stupid xeroxed zine.Woohoo!
I've been tossing around this idea for some time, myself.
I love writing, the art form, the written word, every aspect (there are a lot of them) to the game. I would love to publish poetry or short stories or even novels.
My question is a hard one to form, but I'll try my best:
Does the desire to self-publish because I love writing, make sense? Or is it often a contradiction of motive-to-method?
What my concern has to do with, is the fact that it's so hard for me to get published, and not to say that I don't want to put in the hours (I already have, and will continue to do so, and won't even self-publish something below my full ability), but what if my sincere love never gets anywhere with the traditional route?
Basically, if I self-publish, does my credibility go out the window?
Hope this makes sense.
-Billy
Embrace, anyone???
-edit: I think Embrace were '88 or so. Whatever, most old school shit, love it.
-edit redux: Embrace was 1985.
I love writing, the art form, the written word, every aspect (there are a lot of them) to the game. I would love to publish poetry or short stories or even novels.
My question is a hard one to form, but I'll try my best:
Does the desire to self-publish because I love writing, make sense? Or is it often a contradiction of motive-to-method?
What my concern has to do with, is the fact that it's so hard for me to get published, and not to say that I don't want to put in the hours (I already have, and will continue to do so, and won't even self-publish something below my full ability), but what if my sincere love never gets anywhere with the traditional route?
Basically, if I self-publish, does my credibility go out the window?
Hope this makes sense.
-Billy
This shit just got REAL.
Embrace, anyone???
-edit: I think Embrace were '88 or so. Whatever, most old school shit, love it.
-edit redux: Embrace was 1985.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
They were a great Dischord band. Ever listen to Lungfish?
mjp
Founding member
I'm all for self-publishing in a punk rock, DIY kind of way.
But honestly, if you can't get poetry published by others first, you may need to rethink things. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's pretty easy to get poetry published. There are a million places that are looking for submissions, and if they all - okay, a lot of them - turn you down, you either aren't any good, or you're ahead of your time and no one gets you yet. The odds and the Gods do not favor the latter, I'm afraid.
with sites like lulu making it easy for any tom, dick, or harry to set themselves up as a 'publisher', be careful who you submit to. I've become somewhat aggrieved at some 'editors' who have basically made money out of mine and others poetry, without even getting their hands dirty on the printing side, or providing a contributors copy. Try duotrope (if you haven't already), you can spend some time searching out the right places for your work.
If no one is willing to print you, then try and solicit some feedback as to why (hard work that, but give it a go). Also, consider why you want to be published; a friend, and well published poet, said this to me once:
Decide what YOU want to do with your writing.
Do you want to submit to magazines and get paid for it?
Do you want to strengthen your voice, and build a fanbase?
Do you just want to journal, and write for yourself?
Do you want to master writing and be proud of your grocery lists?
Really. Decide what you want of your writing. Once YOU know the rest is easy.
As to self-publishing, you have to either be willingly to submit to weeks of sourcing the right paper, typesetting, folding, cutting, hitting your printer (machine or man), etc, etc. Or, handing your work over to someone like lulu/amazon etc, and producing something which will stand out like a pebble on a beach. Then, at the end of it all, you have to convince strangers to buy a book by someone who has no previous publishing credits. But your mum will be pleased.
I would say a good place to start would be to set up a website, display your writing, spread the word, and then see if you have an audience.
If no one is willing to print you, then try and solicit some feedback as to why (hard work that, but give it a go). Also, consider why you want to be published; a friend, and well published poet, said this to me once:
Decide what YOU want to do with your writing.
Do you want to submit to magazines and get paid for it?
Do you want to strengthen your voice, and build a fanbase?
Do you just want to journal, and write for yourself?
Do you want to master writing and be proud of your grocery lists?
Really. Decide what you want of your writing. Once YOU know the rest is easy.
As to self-publishing, you have to either be willingly to submit to weeks of sourcing the right paper, typesetting, folding, cutting, hitting your printer (machine or man), etc, etc. Or, handing your work over to someone like lulu/amazon etc, and producing something which will stand out like a pebble on a beach. Then, at the end of it all, you have to convince strangers to buy a book by someone who has no previous publishing credits. But your mum will be pleased.
I would say a good place to start would be to set up a website, display your writing, spread the word, and then see if you have an audience.
Hosh
hoshomccreesh.com
I know it seems like publishing = good, and not publishing = bad, so in order to be good you need to get published...
Here's the thing: publishing and writing are two wildly different monsters. You can teach yourself to write (or study somewhere to get better) without publishing at all. Or you can publish something, and in the interest of getting published more, keep writing the same thing--and you might have a lot of credits, but artistically you've done nothing.
Writing is the long, lonely hours. Writing is locked behind a door, neglecting friends and family, and being regimented in your approach to getting better. Writing is reading a lot of different things. Writing is indulging every thread of an idea, and riding it out to see if there's something in it. Writing is a sore back and getting fat because you're always at a desk. Writing is the smile at 2am when you finish an edit and think, "oh man, I think this is really good." And writing is looking at the same piece in the cold light of a blue morning and saying "No, it's shit" (if it is). Then doing it all over again.
Publishing is sending emails, studying and supporting magazines and small presses. It's sending out your shit with stamps, and envelopes, and submitting via mishmash. It's tracking your submissions, and following guidelines, and establishing relationships with editors. It's being professional every time you get a reject. And it's doing it every goddamned day, for years on end, with nothing to show for it but contributor's copies.
They have very little to do with each other. I know you might think that publishing something will legitimize your work for you somehow--and it's true, it might. In that case--it's probably worth it. A writer needs to absolutely believe in their work. But if you publish just to say you're published--then deep down you'll always know you aren't--not really, not like you wanted to be--and that will actually work against you, and you won't get the confidence that you thought being published would give you.
My advice is to be patient. Separate the 2 in your mind and keep working, reading, and trying to figure out what your favorite writers are/were doing. Keep studying and submitting only to the mags where you think your work fits best (and be honest, if you can't get into Scratchy's Xeroxed Zine Crotch then don't submit to the New York Quarterly--you're wasting stamps). And once you garner a few publishing credits, think about putting together a chapbook manuscript. By then, someone might ask you for a manuscript, and all the worrying about it will be moot. Best of luck to you.
Here's the thing: publishing and writing are two wildly different monsters. You can teach yourself to write (or study somewhere to get better) without publishing at all. Or you can publish something, and in the interest of getting published more, keep writing the same thing--and you might have a lot of credits, but artistically you've done nothing.
Writing is the long, lonely hours. Writing is locked behind a door, neglecting friends and family, and being regimented in your approach to getting better. Writing is reading a lot of different things. Writing is indulging every thread of an idea, and riding it out to see if there's something in it. Writing is a sore back and getting fat because you're always at a desk. Writing is the smile at 2am when you finish an edit and think, "oh man, I think this is really good." And writing is looking at the same piece in the cold light of a blue morning and saying "No, it's shit" (if it is). Then doing it all over again.
Publishing is sending emails, studying and supporting magazines and small presses. It's sending out your shit with stamps, and envelopes, and submitting via mishmash. It's tracking your submissions, and following guidelines, and establishing relationships with editors. It's being professional every time you get a reject. And it's doing it every goddamned day, for years on end, with nothing to show for it but contributor's copies.
They have very little to do with each other. I know you might think that publishing something will legitimize your work for you somehow--and it's true, it might. In that case--it's probably worth it. A writer needs to absolutely believe in their work. But if you publish just to say you're published--then deep down you'll always know you aren't--not really, not like you wanted to be--and that will actually work against you, and you won't get the confidence that you thought being published would give you.
My advice is to be patient. Separate the 2 in your mind and keep working, reading, and trying to figure out what your favorite writers are/were doing. Keep studying and submitting only to the mags where you think your work fits best (and be honest, if you can't get into Scratchy's Xeroxed Zine Crotch then don't submit to the New York Quarterly--you're wasting stamps). And once you garner a few publishing credits, think about putting together a chapbook manuscript. By then, someone might ask you for a manuscript, and all the worrying about it will be moot. Best of luck to you.
mjp
Founding member
Some of my most profound work is in there.
.......I've a looooong fucking way to go.
Well then. Now I know.
Thanks for the input, people!
-Ransom
Also.
And Rekrab,
Gonna have to agree with you here. Not saying that my approach has been just to get published just to say I did it. There's a lot more at work/at play/at stake for me here than just the hollow "glory" of being published.
STEPHENIE. MEYER.
Your point is a good one, dickish or not (it wasn't really that dickish. If it was, what business would I have being on a Buk fan site!?) it's a good point.
So I'm mostly focusing on fiction with this line of questioning here.
Well then. Now I know.
Thanks for the input, people!
-Ransom
Also.
And Rekrab,
Gonna have to agree with you here. Not saying that my approach has been just to get published just to say I did it. There's a lot more at work/at play/at stake for me here than just the hollow "glory" of being published.
STEPHENIE. MEYER.
I've been published in the smallest of publishers, actually one of which was a friend of mine (just to illustrate how small I'm talking here).
Your point is a good one, dickish or not (it wasn't really that dickish. If it was, what business would I have being on a Buk fan site!?) it's a good point.
So I'm mostly focusing on fiction with this line of questioning here.
I'd give it 40 years and someone might bite ;)
I'm in no rush, sir or madam. ;)
he's a madam. trust me.
I lol'd irl.
go back to your riot Canada boy!
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
According to the Canadian Union of Rioters (CUR) the rotating riots happen in Dartmouth next week. Last week was Vancouver. I think the reasoning was a carry over from the cancelled Guns 'n' Roses concert of 2002.
Love in the middle of a fire fight indeed.
Love in the middle of a fire fight indeed.
hey man, I was rooting for the Bruins... (sorry DiB).
I might try something like this for the next book I print. I'll get the writer to settle into a full blown riot and sit down with a copy of their book and a cup of tea, then out comes my disposable camera, and- BOOM! We either have a sure fire best seller, or a dead poet. So, Steve, I was asking you about doing a book...
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
I was rootin' for the riot. :DD
I don't drink tea.
mjp
Founding member
When Greg from Mother Road published alternative man, he suggested that I "get on the news" somehow and hold up a copy. His personal recommendation was that I should "get famous" by making an attempt on the President's life, but after considering that for a while I decided that it might be overkill to go to that extreme to sell 500 copies of a 70 page book.
I think he was kidding, but I could never be sure with him.
I think he was kidding, but I could never be sure with him.
ITT: whispers of a plot to kill the president
Do i need to report you, sir?
lolol i better stop before you start thinking i'm actually serious
Do i need to report you, sir?
lolol i better stop before you start thinking i'm actually serious
I once thought about trying to get publicity by setting up my drums at a grocery store, or some public place, and playing in the nude - thinking it would get the news involved. Now it would just induce public vomiting.
Publicity is a whole 'nother animal. You have to get creative and get others to help you out and getting on the news is not really going to get people to read a book anyway. I recently got a book called Guerrilla Marketing, that I have not yet read, hoping it will help me out with some new approaches to marketing my art n stuff. I will let you guys know if there's anything special in it.
Publicity is a whole 'nother animal. You have to get creative and get others to help you out and getting on the news is not really going to get people to read a book anyway. I recently got a book called Guerrilla Marketing, that I have not yet read, hoping it will help me out with some new approaches to marketing my art n stuff. I will let you guys know if there's anything special in it.
