Translations in to Portuguese language

David, your German is excellent even in the details.
only two things:

[...] "Then" in next sentence becomes "irgendwann" which means "sometimes"

in this case it means "after a little while". Of course this is different than "then", but still closer than "sometimes".

[...] "I played with one hand" becomes "spielte...weiter" which means "I continued to play..."

His whole sentence is, as you quoted before: "Ich spielte mit einer Hand weiter" which does mean "with one hand".

[...] there are alot of changes in terms of syntax and language structure and repetition.. etc.

These are even very small changes compared to many others he did.
And of course - it's especially the poems when Weissners translations become very 'free'. (The German word for this style of 'translating' is "Nachdichtung" which more or less means "adaptation". It's not uncommon for poetry.)

You're right, some changes aren't really necessary. And escpecially in cases where Buk does something intentionally, like the repeating of the piano, we should be critical.

But still - sometimes a 'free translation'/'adaption' hits the feeling of a different language much better.

Plus: don't forget, this translation dates from 1970. It's strange but a fact, that translations tend to sound 'aged' much faster than the original texts.


It's always easy to find something in translations, that I myself would make different. But as a whole, I must say that Weissner got the works right. They are a pleasure to read for Germans and transport the 'feeling' of the texts for German ears.

I still like to read Hanks prose in translation.
It's only the poems, where I avoid doing so.
But even those aren't too bad. It's a hard job and he did very well.


ps:
right now I'm reading 'Hollywood' for the first time in English. A lot of things turn out to be better of course, but some really worked better for me in German. (yes, I said 'better')

And in case anybody of you has ever wondered how sudden this book starts ("A couple of days later ...") - the German translation, as always, follows the original manuscript: and this one has a whole page before that start, telling about Pinchot calling him and asking to write a screenplay. I don't know why this was left out in the English version.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
JTPxx.jpg

João Tomaz Parreira
Okay. You are okay.
 
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"because I am poet" - beautiful.

MJP, what you think of this poem I wrote in your language?

Steinway & Sons

Three legs of the Steinway
raise a symphony of birds
in the veins above of the floor

the elegant legs
of the Steinway
as a woman

whom we listened
slowly
in its black dress.

(J.T.Parreira)
 
"Masochist"

Yes, I do: in portuguese: Bocage; in french: Jean-Arthur Rimbaud; in english:Bukowski. Therefore, great poets.
 
If I might add a couple of thoughts:

Personally, I find the use of the phrase "of the Steinway" a second time awkward. As a matter of fact, the whole line "of the Steinway" in the second stanza is probably unnecessary, although that removes your three lines per stanza format. Maybe "of the wood" instead?

In the last stanza, to be more proper English, it could either read "To whom we listened" or "Who we listened to."

I hope you don't mind my thoughts and critique.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Roni said:
right now I'm reading 'Hollywood' for the first time in English. A lot of things turn out to be better of course, but some really worked better for me in German. (yes, I said 'better')

And in case anybody of you has ever wondered how sudden this book starts ("A couple of days later ...") - the German translation, as always, follows the original manuscript: and this one has a whole page before that start, telling about Pinchot calling him and asking to write a screenplay. I don't know why this was left out in the English version.
So there's a whole page missing in the English version? (The Danish translation also starts with, "A couple of days later...". ) But maybe it's wrong to say it's missing. It was probably an editorial decision, but somehow Weissner had access to the original manuscript and decided to include that page in his translation. Just my two cents...
 
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... It was probably an editorial decision, but somehow Weissner had access to the original manuscript ...

sure it was an editorial decission. But a bad one, I think. The way it starts in the English version is pointless - the missing of the beginning is so obvious.

Besides, it's a funny start, when Pinchot calls him, asking for a screenplay and he answers something like "Fuck you." and puts down the phone, Pinchot calls again, asking for a screenplay, he answers "I hate screenplays, I hate Hollywood, I hate actors and I hate movies...", then Pinchot offers an advance-payment and he immediately says: "Where are you now? Can you come by?"

--> for all those around who know German a little better than Portugese: HERE is this beginning.
(Attached a text copy produced by running roni's gif through the OCR)


Yes, Weissner was translating from what is considered to be the 'original script'. In this case it shows especially in chapters 1 and 7.

Another book where you see this very clear is his translation of 'Women'. He even used the original project-title 'Love Tale of the Hyenna' ('Das Liebesleben der Hyäne').
 

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  • Hollywood_German_start.txt
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
You're right, Roni, the missing part should've been left in! It's very funny and it makes perfect sense, (my German is so much better than my Portuguese) so I don't understand why it was left out. Another questionable decision by Martin, I guess.
So, after the phone calls, Buk drives to Marina Del Rey to meet Pinchot and then follows the "normal" beginning we all know, right?
Thanks a lot, for showing us the missing part, Roni!
 
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Poems will be compared and contrasted, a internal and external. The conflict in each poem will be explored. All this through the translation.

For example:

[ah, damn, database malfunction, great translation lost forever.]
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
It's all greek to me.
J.T. you are obviously writing to one or two very specific people who speak Portuguese and English. It does not make much sense posting it here but rather find the appropriate linguist and send them a private message. I have been told Potuguese is a beautiful language, one of the romance languages, isn't it?
 
Pertinacity? Greek?

I don't think so. All this has been a contribution to a conversation about translations and the Buk, who is beyond any intellectual conversation.

αυτό είναι ελληνικά (Greek is this).

J.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
If you, the linguistic scholar that you are, want to translate Bukowski, then you need to be familiar with our expressions. Of course this is all Greek to you.
 

cirerita

Founding member
Here in Spain we say "it's all Chinese to me." ("me suena a chino", which is the same as "it's all greek to me.")

Amigo Parreira, eres un ser obstinado donde los haya. Todo lo que cuentas no viene a cuento ;)

It's All Chinese to You, Yes.
 
HA!
cire, funny thing is, in German it's:
"That sounds like Spanish villages to me!" ("Das klingt für mich wie spanische Därfer") - really! no joke.
(there's also 'Spanish' used in another context: "That looks Spanish to me." - "Das kommt mir Spanisch vor." - This means: "That's very strange to me.")

But, we have that 'Chinese' thing too. Only, in our case, the expression goes the other way 'round: You use it, when some other person don't understand (or ignores) what you say - "Do I speak Chinese, or what?!?" ("Spreche ich Chinesisch oder was?!?")
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
All I see here is a Strange Pertinacity.

Perhaps our friend takes the Buk quote, "Endurance is more important than truth", a bit too literal. :D

Here in Spain we say "it's all Chinese to me." ("me suena a chino", which is the same as "it's all greek to me.")

Here we say, "It's pure Volapyk to me" (Volapyk being an artificial language like Esperanto, but never as successful as Esperanto)...
 
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Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
I think the new Portugese member is a good guy.
Why don't we split this thread and start a serious topic
about Buk translations?
This can be an interesting topic for some buknet members.
 
Portugese [...] Buk translations [...] This can be an interesting topic ...

Great idea, Ponder!
(though it May be to late to save this special person now.)

I don't see, why we shouldn't have people here, giving translations, even in uncommon languages, (even bad translations maybe). It sure fits the subject. (if there's a problem with that, remove it to the 'All things Not Buk'-area. But I'd say, this is a little more on-topic than what we had for dinner.)

I, personally, am Not interested in Portugese translations of Buk, good or bad. But I do think, this is a topic for this site.

Sure, I also see mjps point: we don't know, what is said in those 'translations'. But still ...
 

mjp

Founding member
If you guys want to do translations -- well I was going to say I don't care, but if I'm being honest, I do kind of care. I just don't want them here. I don't want to quash anyone's fun, but I just don't think this is the place. I have enough trouble reading English.

You know, my personal bias is toward English for obvious reasons, and not to be a dick or a xenophobe, but I'm not terribly interested in attracting hundreds of non-English speakers to the forum. It starts with translations, then there are conversations, then a separate forum for Spaniards, one for Slavs, Maori, Icelanders...where does it stop? This isn't the united colors of Benetton for chrissake! ;)

Those of you who speak English as a second or third language contribute quite a bit to the forum, and I appreciate that. But I just want everyone here to be able to read your contributions. I don't want to start fracturing things into language ghettos. Or language grottos, alcoves or secret societies...
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Moderator
Founding member
I'd suggest we can have a thread to discuss the subject of translation, in English, and if anyone wants to show off their own translated poems they use their own website or blog and promote it via a snappy signature.
 
--> for all those around who know German a little better than Portugese: HERE is this beginning.

I know I'm tossing another translation into the mix, but this one is translated into English, so I hope its relevant for all my fellow anglophones.

My German isn't great, and I'm sure there are plenty of others here who do this much better, but here is a very rough translation of the first page of the German version of Hollywood . The English version is missing this beginning.

Roni is right - it is a much better start than the English version.
 

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