2 Flies

[Jason Raimondo]

so truely NO, I don't want anyone to do my homework, but this forum looked like a nice place to exchange ideas with people who know Bukowski better than I have gotten to know him in 3 weeks of research. If you are familiar with 2 flies then let me know what insights you might have, and if not then maybe just knowing Bukowski is enough to offer up some insight. I just don't like turning in a skid mark of a paper because I neglected to cover all of my bases. I would pursue a Lit degree as I do love to write, but writers don't need the degree, just the talent and exposure, so I will make my money nursing, maybe use the wierd situations in the hospital to gain some new perspectives, and inspiration for some writing and do my thing until I die. If you're cool with that then help me out. If you think this is some shit slinging forum like the crapfest on aol then please also let me know so I can stop checking my posts.
Thanks

I need to get a copy of that poem.

Two flies is a great pome, yes. It's rather hard to find anything written about it, however. From what I hear.

man you are right. I found no real criticisms on Bukowski's poems. It's like he is completely ignored by academics. I just have to interpret it on my own, but its kind of cool this way because I don't have anyone elses slant on my analysis

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Just for clarity, I'm not Jebdo. I am not sure how my name and his/her message got combined. ................................... and I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

Yeah, that sucks when other people use your ideas for their own personal gain.

I think you should hang out here for a long time, you'll be okay. I can see a good side of you, like the way you are hanging in right now. Let us get to know you some more. Do you have a dog, a cat or just flies?
Seriously this is a good place. Welcome.


Let the record show, I did not see those last two posts from our new friend.

 

[mjp]

what god puts these
lost things upon me?

 

[hank solo]

man you are right. I found no real criticisms on Bukowski's poems. It's like he is completely ignored by academics. I just have to interpret it on my own, but its kind of cool this way because I don't have anyone elses slant on my analysis

Your own interpretation is an interesting one, and as valid as any other. I say go with what you have. I'm not much for this type of analysis, but if you really want to read some academic criticism try the books mentioned in these threads...

Against The American Dream: Essays on Bukowski

Searching critical book on Buk's writing

Literary Criticism of Buk's Stuff?

Books about Bukowski

 

[David]

...classical music, pain over lost love, being alone, horse racing, bars, writers he admires, summertime in Los Angeles....

 

[Billville]

... I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

It's definitely a re-occurring problem around here. I wish the moderators could control that sort of behavior better.

 

[james]

hello jason, and welcome. you must understand that, usually, when people come around here asking for something, if they do get it they promptly disappear. this is why you are not getting the response you probably expected. but you seem to know your stuff and have stuck around, so kudos. the poem you mentioned is definitely a good one. upon re-reading it, i can see your analogy, but i just don't see buk sitting down, thinking, alright, one fly is this, one is that, etc. maybe subconsciously he somehow meant what you say, but i don't think it's intentional. that's just me. but i do like your interpretation though, and i say go with it if that's what you feel...

 

[the only good poet]

bukowski wrote 2 flies not long after the encounter with them. the potential was there, and he padded it out. but there is the close observations, and he was aware there could be implications. how's that for a poet!

2 flies! how about 40,000?

 

[Erik]

[...] i just don't see buk sitting down, thinking, alright, one fly is this, one is that, etc. maybe subconsciously he somehow meant what you say, but i don't think it's intentional. [...]

A poet is a person who consciously lets his subconsciousthoughts roam freely.
He then consciously structures the result on paper, and hey presto! there's the poem.
Subconsciousness, on its own, will get you nowhere...

 

[roni]

your interpretation, Jason Rai, is very interesting.

only - i know of no poem by Buk, where he talks as "I" and does not really mean himself.
so the "I" in the poem would rather be him than society, which makes the flies Not him.

BUT - in the last lines he shows, that there IS something similar between him and the remaining fly. a tie that binds. ("woven together") and that he came aware of it only because he killed the other fly which changed the whole situation.

i can see hanksolos point:

Have you ever been in a room with a couple of flies? Try to imagine what that's like for a moment...

i can imagine Buk sitting at the typer, trying to write, being disturbed by these two flies (literally) and unable to concentrate on anything else.

so, he starts to write about the flies. the whole 2 / 3rd of the poem comes like a simple description of what really happens. no deeper meenings, i'd say. except being seriously nerved by these tiny suckers.

then suddenly, after killing one, things change and he (the "I"-person) realizes that (as well as the remaining fly does). and even though he still describes in a natural way, it has become something spiritual.

i'd say the two major quotes to show these two 'parts' of the poem are:

"other men suffer dictates of empire, tragic love ... I suffer insects."
(this, to me, has something like: "It's not the big things that send a man to a madhouse...")

and then:

"we are woven together in the air and the living; it is late for both of us."
(that last sentence could refer to the "I"-persons late insight, for which one living creature had to die first, as well as he and the fly are 'late in life' meaning 'closer to death than to birth'.)

or maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Jason Raimondo]

Father Luke, thanks for the recomendations on the books, I will check them out, and Roni, thank's very much for the interpretations. I totally agreed with you until I got to thinking that Bukowski as a fly seems to be a common theme in his work. Not in the way that Buk was literally using flies in other works, but in the way that flies are a object of disgust. People have plenty of preconcieved notions about flies that won't be changed as the flies of the world recieve no representation. Except it seems, through Bukowski. It seems like in work after work Buk is forcing people to look at aspects of life that society finds ugly and improper. Maybe the fly on your hand just finished munchin some steak on your neighbor's dinner table, but you assume when you see it that it came from some animal carcus, or a pile of feces. I figure that Buk lived through the rise and fall of 2major counter-culture movements in the US, he saw society clash with these movements (the beats in the 50s and Hippies in the 60s), and he saw the movements crushed. These were non violent, but annoying movements for the mainstream, they were met with violence, the most outspoken of those in the movements were silenced, and the remaining pacified flies remain, allowed to coexist with society. This could very well be one hell of a stretch that I had to make in order to produce a paper on the poem, but I feel pretty comfortable with it because I think that I can support it adequately. I do see Buk just sitting in the room, maybe drinking some wine and trying to get something done, and then being facinated by his violent inner cave man being brought to the surface by such a tiny annoyance. I really like hearing everyone's insights on this. I feel like even if I don't use someone elses approach, at least I'm, getting exposed to it. THANKS

 

[jakthefish]

I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

HAHA I'm that Jak off! But thank you!! I have a presentation on this poem later today and at least some of the last few posts had a few useful ideas for things to talk about. Plus I learned a little more about the guy.

 

[Otto jr]

So, this is how a writer's legacy is made.
Yes, Jakthefish...go with that analysis. Henry Charles Bukowski's literary persona is that he thought of himself as a fly, and it built up in him when he saw the hippie counter-culture crushed and silenced before his quivering eyes, and now he has become that fly, buzzing in the face of society for all-time on behalf of lost hippies.
Future scholars will come here and find this wisdom, copy it, and thus the legend of Bukowski is born anew.