700,000 Pot Legalization Signatures Filed in California
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Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
They'll just have to advocate pot smoking without mixing it with tobacco. ;)
The opponents of legal pot will probably say, apart from the drug issue itself, that "in times where we tell people not to smoke tobacco, we cannot allow people to smoke pot as the smoke is even more harmful than tobacco smoke". :rolleyes:
Okay, we'll eat it in cakes instead then! :)
The opponents of legal pot will probably say, apart from the drug issue itself, that "in times where we tell people not to smoke tobacco, we cannot allow people to smoke pot as the smoke is even more harmful than tobacco smoke". :rolleyes:
Okay, we'll eat it in cakes instead then! :)
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who cares who or where we get it from, either commercial or home grown. Its time that the laws quit making criminals. a friend gave me a few bottles of his homemade wine for x-mas. theres room for both. I'm a pessimist though, and this debate has been going on for longer than I care to remember. I just don't think that this redneck nation is ready for legalization. then again we did elect a black (?) president. good luck Ca. the rest of us are waiting.
horrible, if some pharma giants take control over the plant.
mjp
Founding member
It doesn't matter what laws are passed in California, the federal drug laws will always trump our little laws, and they can be used against someone here, where herb is pretty much ignored by cops unless you're carrying around a bale of the stuff (or they need it to prop up some other petty bullshit charge).
All "drug laws" are a ridiculous waste of money and everyone sitting in the government knows that. All they do is give cops with Rambo complexes something to do on Saturday nights. They get to play Serpico and use that big door bashing tool.
But those laws will never, ever change drastically because they would have to be changed by politicians. And politicians - all of them - are too cowardly to do anything that might lose them one vote.
All "drug laws" are a ridiculous waste of money and everyone sitting in the government knows that. All they do is give cops with Rambo complexes something to do on Saturday nights. They get to play Serpico and use that big door bashing tool.
But those laws will never, ever change drastically because they would have to be changed by politicians. And politicians - all of them - are too cowardly to do anything that might lose them one vote.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
plausible to me
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Same thing over here. The politicians in Copenhagen including the mayor wants to set up "Coffee shops" on an experimental basis but our right-wing Government won't let them do it.
Right! It's so ridiculous and certainly overkill when you see the "storm troopers" use their bashing tool to get through the door of some low level pot dealer's home. They don't even wait for the guy to open the door (what a disappointment that would be!). They could just bring a locksmith along instead but I guess that's not as exciting as getting to use the door bashing tool (and the bulletproof vests, the helmets and what not).
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pigmantoo
Drugs -?
I was like most children of the 60's, believing that the legalization of drugs and the controls that would naturally come would be good for society. I saw no problems with this "no victim crime". What is the difference between alcohol and pot, etc. type of arguments? However, I tell you that after 7 years on and off doing outreach for people on skid row I am not so sure. I believe that the majority of the population can handle drugs but there is lots of people that cannot and it really f**k them up, bad and a lot worse that alcohol (my opinion). Anyway, I an not going to tell people how to live their lives, but lots of the stuff out there can really mess up your brain, and that brain is you.
I just don't know anymore.
I was like most children of the 60's, believing that the legalization of drugs and the controls that would naturally come would be good for society. I saw no problems with this "no victim crime". What is the difference between alcohol and pot, etc. type of arguments? However, I tell you that after 7 years on and off doing outreach for people on skid row I am not so sure. I believe that the majority of the population can handle drugs but there is lots of people that cannot and it really f**k them up, bad and a lot worse that alcohol (my opinion). Anyway, I an not going to tell people how to live their lives, but lots of the stuff out there can really mess up your brain, and that brain is you.
I just don't know anymore.
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Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
well, we are taking about pot, not crack, are we?
I have never seen anyone get violent after smoking a joint.
I have never seen anyone get violent after smoking a joint.
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pigmantoo
Once a doctor told me that stuff from plants is better for you than the stuff just made out of chemicals. I am not a doctor, I don't know but I have seen some really messed up brains out there, and sometimes it transmits to their kids, maybe in the early stages of pregancy. I don't know and if you have been doing pot with no problems then tok up, but some bodies just cannot handle the stuff, pot, alcohol, crack, H, Mo Jo, bennies, etc,etc,etc.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Right, but we don't forbid alcohol just because some people can't handle it, do we?
The people you mention who can't handle pot etc., don't seem to have had any trouble getting their hands on those "illegal substances". To me it seems like they'll get hold of it whether it's illegal or not.
If they couldn't get hold of "illegal substances", then you would have an argument for keeping it illegal, but since they have no trouble getting what they want anyway, the argument fades away.
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I'm terrible at posting links, but there is a great book by Dr. Andrew Weil titled, The Marriage of Sun and Moon. All about mind altering drugs, from chocolate to cocaine and all others "in between". I read it many years ago and remember thinking how awesome it was that there was a Dr. who actually gave an unbiased study to the importance of susbstances in the lives of we humans.
I've always been suspect of the Pharm. Co.'s and their control over what is 'okay' to take. This lesson was driven home to me several years ago whan Kava was made illegal. Kava is a fantastic herb that WORKS for depression. It was affordable and no other 'drugs' or supplements are needed, (though combined with St. Johns wort made for a very nice day indeed!) I think you can still get certain 'forms or grades' of it, but it is not the same.
I don't think pot will ever be allowed in the U.S., the big guys will just not let it happen. I can't say I understand why. The tax revenue alone should be the factor in government wanting it legalized/decriminalized but that does not seem to make any difference. I guess the big business of prisons beats it out?
:)Toke on peeps,toke on...
I've always been suspect of the Pharm. Co.'s and their control over what is 'okay' to take. This lesson was driven home to me several years ago whan Kava was made illegal. Kava is a fantastic herb that WORKS for depression. It was affordable and no other 'drugs' or supplements are needed, (though combined with St. Johns wort made for a very nice day indeed!) I think you can still get certain 'forms or grades' of it, but it is not the same.
I don't think pot will ever be allowed in the U.S., the big guys will just not let it happen. I can't say I understand why. The tax revenue alone should be the factor in government wanting it legalized/decriminalized but that does not seem to make any difference. I guess the big business of prisons beats it out?
:)Toke on peeps,toke on...
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Probably! Private prisons rented out to the States are big business. I watched an English documentary on TV about it where they said it was the most profitable business on the stock exchange.
I'm sure the private prisons owners just love the "three strikes you're out" law and the so-called "war on drugs" (= war on people).
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nervas
more crickets than friends
I have lots of friends that truly believe a law to legalize pot will happen any day now! Probably because they smoke too much of it! I liked pot 15 years ago, but now, even the smell of it sets a panic attack in motion for me! Don't know why, it just has that shitty effect on me.
To use the well-trodden terms of the debate though I'd say the people you are on about are, if you like, the true casualties of the 'War on Drugs' and while legalisation of all drugs wouldn't be perfect it would perhaps allow addicts to get on with relatively 'normal' lives. For one thing the pursuit of their habit wouldn't have to be what amounts to a full-time occupation.
The political will just doesn't exist though.
As for pot, I think it's ridiculous that it's illegal.
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pigmantoo
Bukfan, I am not making an agruement -- I just don't know. I would never tell another person how to live their life, as long as they are not trying to kill me or others or burn down buildings or crash cars, etc.
Drugs have been a part of human existence since the dawn of time -- its just where I work I see the cost to the individual on those individuals who could not handle them.
Again, I am not taking sides so I am sitting in that eight ring of hell as I have not taken issue. I just don't know.
Bruno, as usual you make some good arguements. All I am saying is that some of that stuff out there really, and I mean really f**k up your mind, sometimes for good. I have seen people that maybe have a memory span of 10 to 15 seconds, thats all. They can't even talk but a few words. Maybe thats why I like zombie books, as these people are about as close to zombies as you can get, and they get pregant have kids, rob, kill, etc.etc.etc.
Anway, as I say - I just don't know anymore, but sometimes it makes me cry, a life down the toilet.
Drugs have been a part of human existence since the dawn of time -- its just where I work I see the cost to the individual on those individuals who could not handle them.
Again, I am not taking sides so I am sitting in that eight ring of hell as I have not taken issue. I just don't know.
Bruno, as usual you make some good arguements. All I am saying is that some of that stuff out there really, and I mean really f**k up your mind, sometimes for good. I have seen people that maybe have a memory span of 10 to 15 seconds, thats all. They can't even talk but a few words. Maybe thats why I like zombie books, as these people are about as close to zombies as you can get, and they get pregant have kids, rob, kill, etc.etc.etc.
Anway, as I say - I just don't know anymore, but sometimes it makes me cry, a life down the toilet.
mjp
Founding member
But you do know.
If you didn't "know" you wouldn't keep talking out of both sides of your mouth, repeatedly inferring the whorey old rhetoric that certain people should be protected from themselves.
That evangelical Republican idea that WE - the ELEVATED, the EDUCATED, the CHOSEN, the WHITE MEN of the world! - must protect the dirty commoner, because they are far too addled and stupid to protect or help themselves.
That's what your pro bono rap stinks of. Be a man and say what you really think. Stop hemming and hawing and covering your bases. You come across like a weasely cunt, if it please the court.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
My signature is among the 700,000 and it is going to be tough to get it to pass. The pharmaceutical giants need to make money. There are people who believe asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower and a few other common vegetables have properties that cure cancer but how can you charge $1500. a dose for that?
It's all about the money.
It's all about the money.
I agree and I'm not naive enough to think people can take drugs and there will be no consequences. I just think that, in general, the law quite possibly makes it worse for those people. It's criminalising people unnecessarily. That's just my view and I know people make their own decisions and not everyone is some innocent victim.pigmantoo said:
I think it's important to distinguish between something like marijuana and harder drugs as well though. In fact, each drug (or at least each type of drug) should be considered separately.
Having worked for the DOC (last time I'll mention this) all I can say is amen. Sad thing is it comes down to a numbers crunch. Prisons have a finite number of beds. They'll release Petey the Perv (who fucked your neighbor's 12 year old daughter) to accommodate Mr. Caught-with-40-plants-in-his-basement-pot-grower type felon. It's a sad, sick world if you pay too close attention to it. Buk knew the score, caught him at the right time. Bless me more or bless him more for the catch. I don't personally smoke weed but vote for legality if nothing more than to keep the proper types locked up. As Americans, VOTE you take-it-for-granted cock-suckers. Thanks.
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pigmantoo
"weasely cunt?" Well I have never been called that before. Scum bucket, idiolator, shit head, shyster, legal crook, etc., etc., etc. and more but ever that. That is a first mjp, but remember what your first grade teached told you, "Stick and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you." Man, did I disagree with that BS. Words are God.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
they'll standardize the vegetables, regulate the caloric content, dry freeze the items, pulverize and encapsulate them in gelatin-free capsules, tell you it's wheat and gluten free, bottle it pretty with a label that says natural, and we'll pay 13.00 for 90 grams. Easy does it. All this, FDA approved.
ROC
It is what it is
But they do, by fuck, they do.
If there were no speed limits here, our roads would be a Mad Max style death trap. Not only do we (in Oz) need limits but also a constant police presence to keep the more belligerent and foolhardy from simply ignoring those limits.
We have hardcore gun control here and our death rate from shootings is less than 10 a year. In the U.S. it's thousands per year.
Marijuana? If alcohol and tobacco is legal then it's a no brainer - marijuana should be legalised.
But let's face it; the vast majority of this deranged herd we call humanity needs some form of protection from itself.
I've never thought that drug laws were created so much to protect people from 'themselves' as much as they were to protect the rest general public from the things the addicts might do while they're on / trying to get drugs.
If a crackhead gets desperate enough for crack money, he may assault and rob someone in order to get it. Legalizing the crack and making it readily available still doesn't necessarily help him because he still needs a way to get the money to buy it. I realize this reasoning is a slippery slope, but I still think that some drug laws against the heavier stuff might have some legitimacy if it protects the general public.
Alcohol, tobacco, weed are less addictive, less expensive, etc. so you don't have the same level of desperation. Regulate it and tax it.
But like someone said, as it currently stands the cops here in California couldn't care less about someone carrying a little weed on them anyway.
If a crackhead gets desperate enough for crack money, he may assault and rob someone in order to get it. Legalizing the crack and making it readily available still doesn't necessarily help him because he still needs a way to get the money to buy it. I realize this reasoning is a slippery slope, but I still think that some drug laws against the heavier stuff might have some legitimacy if it protects the general public.
Alcohol, tobacco, weed are less addictive, less expensive, etc. so you don't have the same level of desperation. Regulate it and tax it.
But like someone said, as it currently stands the cops here in California couldn't care less about someone carrying a little weed on them anyway.
mjp
Founding member
You can't "protect" people from themselves.
Guns are a genie that can't be put back into the bottle. Like meth or American Idol. But guns and drugs are apples and oranges.
But we have drug laws, thousands of them, and people steal and whore and everything else to get their drugs. So what would change?
We wouldn't waste billions of dollars a year arresting and imprisoning people who's only crime is having/taking/selling the drugs. That would change.
People will do whatever they want to do as far as intoxication goes, whether it's legal or not. Making this shit illegal only lines the pockets of the private companies that run a lot of the prisons, props up law enforcement budgets and buys votes for politicians.
Yes, a percentage of the populations does already. But you don't think there would be more people taking heroin for a test drive if it were sitting on the shelf next to the Coors Light?
I hear you, though. I agree that it's a waste to lock up the guy who minds his own business and sits in his living room and shoots up. But if that same guy later ends up in the county hospital because of his habit, then you're back to having a public interest - taking away money and resources from everyone else.
I just think there's too many ways that someone's drug use can affect the general public, directly or indirectly, so the government should at least attempt to mitigate the risk to some degree.