Beatles or Stones (or Kinks? Monkees? Herman's Hermits?)
- Thread starter Billville
- Start date
Sure, Memory Motel in Montauk. Great bar, skeevy motel. Now famous. Dead in the Winter; thrives in the Summer. Right on 27 East. (Near: THE END - lol.)
of course it was just an image. that's beside the point.
if you could define mj, what would he be?
lennon = peace
jagger = ???
lennon = peace
jagger = ???
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
A rich, ugly, old maid courted by incapacity.
Except when it comes to rock n roll :p
Except when it comes to rock n roll :p
It's quite obvious you've spoken to his hip replacement surgeon.
As for his plastic surgeon, I have no info...
But rumor has it, he's been calling Mickey Rourke.
And he probably has enough money by now to bail out the US economy...
As for his plastic surgeon, I have no info...
But rumor has it, he's been calling Mickey Rourke.
And he probably has enough money by now to bail out the US economy...
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
He goes to the same guy as Cher. And I'm sure he and Mickey spend all their potential US bailout bucks on hookers and booze anyway :p
And I'm off for the night. Goodnight all. :)
And I'm off for the night. Goodnight all. :)
After reading your other thread, good for Mr. G. ;)
in his prime, sex.
If I had to choose my top 10 Beatles' songs, I doubt there would be more than 1 McCartney composition in there, if any. But he composed some excellent tunes:
I've Just Seen a Face
I'll Follow the Sun
For No One
Lovely Rita
Blackbird
But far more than his juxtaposition to Lennon's songwriting philosophy was his supreme musicianship and ground-breaking bass playing. In terms of R&R (I leave James Jamerson to the Motown genre here), McCartney just about single-handedly brought the bass to worthy equality with the guitar - no mean feat indeed. His work from April '66 (Paperback Writer/Rain) through January '68 (Hey Bulldog) ranks up there with the greatest inventive period ever in music. Lennon may have been pushing all of the boundaries with his songwriting, but McCartney was also pushing just as hard with his playing during this period. Those seemingly psychedelic innovations couldn't have happened without McCartney, even if McCartney wasn't really a big part of that scene.
As for your comments on George Martin, spot on.
I missed mjp's post before, but find much validity to it. I've often thought of Paul as a broadway show song writer, gifted beyond belief. And Purple, yes, one out of 10, at most. Perhaps none. But who doesn't love, "Blackbird?" That's the one for me. Sappy, beautiful, memorable to a fault, like a tv jingle.
But I'm not sure if you can segregate songwriters and bands. Bands are bands, if they have one, two, ten songwriters. The final product is done by the band. If you're lucky enough to have JL, and a great producer like Martin, well, the stars have aligned. Once in a generation. Maybe once in eternity...
Pax
But I'm not sure if you can segregate songwriters and bands. Bands are bands, if they have one, two, ten songwriters. The final product is done by the band. If you're lucky enough to have JL, and a great producer like Martin, well, the stars have aligned. Once in a generation. Maybe once in eternity...
Pax
mjp
Founding member
I've often wondered if they listened to any rocksteady (the successor to ska and precursor to reggae) in '66, '67. That is when the bass really took to the forefront of Jamaican music, and the bulk of those Jamaican singles were sold in Britain.
Anyway, the Jamaicans were listening. They covered a lot of Beatles songs.
For rock bands maybe, but folk singers (and crossover folk/rock singers like Dylan) had been working those concepts for years.
I'm hoping that enough malt liquor will erase the memories of the billions of times I have heard Beatles songs; setting me up to re-experience them all anew. I remember being weakened by the guitars on "Revolution". And I was a damned kid. And when Penny Lane came on the radio I could not be pulled out of the car by anyone (future welder's grip). Man, to get a load of all those songs fresh. In fact, I might as well go ahead and toast-away all the other songs that came later that WISHED to be Beatles songs. A Beatlabotomy! Yes. So it all can begin again.
To be honest, other than their longevity, I've never really understood why the Stones even have a place in the pantheon of rock music. I mean, they do have some good songs now and then, but I'm not sure I've ever made it through an entire album of theirs in one sitting. There's some real clankers in between the hits. And even the hits seem cliched to me. Maybe it's just a generational thing.
A few years ago, when the Stones were playing halftime at the Super Bowl (how's that for edgy?) I remember that they were introduced as the "Greatest Rock and Roll Band of All Time." All I could think was, "Really? I would barely call them the 3rd greatest British rock band of all time."
In my mind, the Beatles are easily the greatest that ever existed. Not necessarily my favorite, but the greatest. Each of them has been relevent in their own way as an artist outside of the band. (Well, at least 3 of them have relevence outside the band.) Their catalog runs the gamut of styles. I don't think anyone will ever come close.
A few years ago, when the Stones were playing halftime at the Super Bowl (how's that for edgy?) I remember that they were introduced as the "Greatest Rock and Roll Band of All Time." All I could think was, "Really? I would barely call them the 3rd greatest British rock band of all time."
In my mind, the Beatles are easily the greatest that ever existed. Not necessarily my favorite, but the greatest. Each of them has been relevent in their own way as an artist outside of the band. (Well, at least 3 of them have relevence outside the band.) Their catalog runs the gamut of styles. I don't think anyone will ever come close.
I've read quite a bit about the lads, but I've never seen anything about that. McCartney did become friends with one Jimmy Scott, a Nigerian conga player, and his style rubbed off on Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da. Unfortunately, the better version, which is very Ska-sounding to me, was canned in favor of the version on the White Album.
The original is available on Anthology Vol 3, and is one of the best "unreleased" versions of their stuff I've heard. I never really cared for that tune, but when I heard the outtake original, I was floored.
mjp
Founding member
Demos and outtakes are often superior because they are recorded without expectations or aspirations to perfection. One day maybe they will release the hundreds of hours of Lennon's home cassettes. If only for historical reasons.
I dump on McCartney, but only because he had the misfortune (?) of being in a band with an idealistic genius punk like Lennon. You can say the same about the Wailers (yes, I eventually bring everything back to reggae), who with Marley, Tosh and Bunny were the Beatles of their time and place. Each different, each contributing something irreplaceable to a whole that was really breathtaking in its scope and influence.
For what it's worth, I never owned a Rolling Stones record, and I kind of agree with marina del rey. I never understood their elevation to legendary status. They rocked, but so did many others.
I dump on McCartney, but only because he had the misfortune (?) of being in a band with an idealistic genius punk like Lennon. You can say the same about the Wailers (yes, I eventually bring everything back to reggae), who with Marley, Tosh and Bunny were the Beatles of their time and place. Each different, each contributing something irreplaceable to a whole that was really breathtaking in its scope and influence.
For what it's worth, I never owned a Rolling Stones record, and I kind of agree with marina del rey. I never understood their elevation to legendary status. They rocked, but so did many others.
Funny thing about that outtake of Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da is that is was intended to be a final. McCartney had been working on that one for a while and Lennon was getting tired of it. After the "Ska" version was recorded, he figured it was in the can, and was surprised and angered when they next got together to record and it was still being worked on. Apparently, he was a bit "buzzed," as it were, and, fed up, he strode up to the piano and began banging on it hard, yelling "This is how it's supposed to be done!" And so, that's how the White Album version came to pass with that piano intro...
Yes indeed.
Jagger was probably the most astute marketer of his image "” hence, making the Stones relevant to a core audience over all these years. Pure genius. The Warhol of frontmen. (Making my point again, I know.)
Slimedog, calling the Beatles a pop band is either bad manners or ignorance. Put on Sgt. Peppers and tell me that is pop. That's John Lennon flexing his cranium for the benefit of Mr. Kite. Lucy In The Sky with Diamonds = Pop? Come on, bro. That's fucking absurd.
As for reggae, I've stated here already I'm a huge Marley fan. Not so much Tosh or Bunny, as I am not as familiar with their works (outside of the reggae v of Beatles). Marley was another intellect, who's star blacked out too soon, like JL. 36, I believe. There are days when I've listened to nothing but Marley - all day. Same with the Beatles - all day. Doors, too. But never the Stones.
But the Stones have earned their place in R&R immortality. After all, "endurance is more important than truth." - CB :eek:
Pax
(Note: Sympathy for the Devil is not overrated. In context, it was ground-breaking; and as far as a song goes, kicks fucking ass...still. ;))
Slimedog, calling the Beatles a pop band is either bad manners or ignorance. Put on Sgt. Peppers and tell me that is pop. That's John Lennon flexing his cranium for the benefit of Mr. Kite. Lucy In The Sky with Diamonds = Pop? Come on, bro. That's fucking absurd.
As for reggae, I've stated here already I'm a huge Marley fan. Not so much Tosh or Bunny, as I am not as familiar with their works (outside of the reggae v of Beatles). Marley was another intellect, who's star blacked out too soon, like JL. 36, I believe. There are days when I've listened to nothing but Marley - all day. Same with the Beatles - all day. Doors, too. But never the Stones.
But the Stones have earned their place in R&R immortality. After all, "endurance is more important than truth." - CB :eek:
Pax
(Note: Sympathy for the Devil is not overrated. In context, it was ground-breaking; and as far as a song goes, kicks fucking ass...still. ;))
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mjp
Founding member
I don't know if Jagger was marketing anything - I don't know enough about them. But if he was a genius he hid it well behind a facade of entitlement, detachment and ignorance.
Anyone who loves Bob Marley's music should read this. He had a lot of help becoming the worldwide phenomenon/shaman/brand name "Bob Marley." Talking about him without paying due respect to his musical architect is like writing the history of Bukowski and never mentioning John Martin, or the history of the Beatles without mentioning George Martin.
No one does any of these things alone.
Anyone who loves Bob Marley's music should read this. He had a lot of help becoming the worldwide phenomenon/shaman/brand name "Bob Marley." Talking about him without paying due respect to his musical architect is like writing the history of Bukowski and never mentioning John Martin, or the history of the Beatles without mentioning George Martin.
No one does any of these things alone.
I take it you're not a big Jagger fan?
As for Marley and Family Man, that's a said yarn to read. Insightful. I was unaware...
Bob must be turning in his grave, if what your wrote is correct "” his family did not do the right thing by all those he loved, those who trusted him.
Very, very sad.
Jah is not providing the bread...
As for Marley and Family Man, that's a said yarn to read. Insightful. I was unaware...
Bob must be turning in his grave, if what your wrote is correct "” his family did not do the right thing by all those he loved, those who trusted him.
Very, very sad.
Jah is not providing the bread...
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Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is a pop song, isn't it?
I don't mean to be rude so maybe I am ignorant.
I bought a Rolling Stones album with money from my paper route 40 plus years ago. It was Got Live if you Want it and it was garbage. That and some bad associations and experiences with several Rolling Stones fans through the years I am prejudiced. The Stones have done some good songs and are great in concert- other than the recording I bought- but the Beatles are better. Wings has done some weird stuff, but the Beatles get my vote, they always have.
I don't mean to be rude so maybe I am ignorant.
I bought a Rolling Stones album with money from my paper route 40 plus years ago. It was Got Live if you Want it and it was garbage. That and some bad associations and experiences with several Rolling Stones fans through the years I am prejudiced. The Stones have done some good songs and are great in concert- other than the recording I bought- but the Beatles are better. Wings has done some weird stuff, but the Beatles get my vote, they always have.
It's my position that the Beatles legitimized so many different styles as popular music that today, it's easy to see them as pop in retrospect. But from Revolver through The Beatles, a large amount of what they were doing (read: compositionally, mainly Lennon; but many of Harrison's tunes were so far from pop as to be almost unclassifiable) was very unlike pop music of the day; in no small part (in my opinion) because Lennon didn't want it to be pop.
But it was so damn good that it became "pop" anyway. So, no, I wouldn't consider Lucy... to have been conceived as a pop song, but it could readily been seen that way now.
I don't think it's a legitimate argument to reduce the Beatles to mere "pop (excluding '62-mid '65)" when it was their very brilliance that took "non-pop" and changed the perception of music so much that it became "pop." If you follow me.
That's akin to reducing their significance because they were so significant.
But it was so damn good that it became "pop" anyway. So, no, I wouldn't consider Lucy... to have been conceived as a pop song, but it could readily been seen that way now.
I don't think it's a legitimate argument to reduce the Beatles to mere "pop (excluding '62-mid '65)" when it was their very brilliance that took "non-pop" and changed the perception of music so much that it became "pop." If you follow me.
That's akin to reducing their significance because they were so significant.
Julian Lennon's Sketch turned into song
I am not a judge, nor jury.
(Other people can decide that about your comments.)
And people here have far more musical industry than I, or ever want to obtain.
But here are the facts. Absent of the lyrics.
The song has a complex arrangement typical of later Lennon-McCartney compositions; much of the song is in compound duple metre (6/8 time), except the chorus, where it switches to 4/4 time. The song also shifts between musical keys, using the key of A major for the verse, Bâ™ major for the pre-chorus or bridge section, and G major for the chorus. It consists of a very simple melody (reminiscent of a nursery song), sung by Lennon over an increasingly complicated underlying arrangement which features a tamboura, played by George Harrison, and a counter melody on Lowrey organ played by Paul McCartney being taped with a special organ stop to give it a sound like a celeste.
Sounds like how POP songs are constructed, eh?
<EDIT>
LOVE is all you need...;)
Pax
AND OH, YEAH, WHAT IS ART AGAIN????????
I am not a judge, nor jury.
(Other people can decide that about your comments.)
And people here have far more musical industry than I, or ever want to obtain.
But here are the facts. Absent of the lyrics.
The song has a complex arrangement typical of later Lennon-McCartney compositions; much of the song is in compound duple metre (6/8 time), except the chorus, where it switches to 4/4 time. The song also shifts between musical keys, using the key of A major for the verse, Bâ™ major for the pre-chorus or bridge section, and G major for the chorus. It consists of a very simple melody (reminiscent of a nursery song), sung by Lennon over an increasingly complicated underlying arrangement which features a tamboura, played by George Harrison, and a counter melody on Lowrey organ played by Paul McCartney being taped with a special organ stop to give it a sound like a celeste.
Sounds like how POP songs are constructed, eh?
<EDIT>
LOVE is all you need...;)
Pax
AND OH, YEAH, WHAT IS ART AGAIN????????
that is excellent. truly. and I say that not just because it's the Beatles, but because she cares for music. I just hope she doesn't think music died in 1970. ;)
She loves all kinds of music. She learned to skat in the 4th grade! She fell in love with The Beatles after seeing Across The Universe. I told her I wanted pictures for this thread and helped her finish the wall today, though it was already almost complete. She plans to do the entire room with various musicians,actors and artists. But I must say, the pictures don't do it justice, standing in front of it just makes you smile. We've been geeked about all day!:)
And Prudence just came in through the bathroom window; gotta go; do it in the road is on...oh yeah, the stones wrote songs like this. and the beatles were pop...
