Bukowski a misogynist?

[Skygazer]

Do we have a right to ignore that or overlook it when reading his works? There is video in this article which I'm sure a lot of people here have seen that still really shocks me...

It is horrible to watch that clip, I kept hoping she would clock him one between the eyes, she doesn't. Maybe because the cameras were rolling and she is less drunk than he.The point is from the many hours and hours of filming that was edited down and discarded? by Schroeder,that clip was kept in. It didn't have to be, but like his writing it is warts and all - a mixture of truth and performance.

His relationships with women were more troubled than the usual, I think his childhood of domestic vilolence that he both endured and witnessed coloured that, especially his relationship with his mother - which is still under examined.
We are far from the end point of evolution regarding domestic violence and too many women carry on being beaten and killed by their men. That you are shocked/ uncomfortable with the scene - is the right reaction..

 

[d gray]

...the piece I wrote...

oh you wrote that? i thought you were linking to someone else's piece.

sorry, i wouldn't have put it so roughly if i knew it was yours.

it's just a very uninformed opinion or impression of him. yes he could be extreme in the way he dealt with both men and women but i think that had at least a little to do with the types of men and women he met and had relationships with.

and as the others said, his horrible childhood did such damage that it affected the way he felt about and dealt with people his whole life.

stick around, you won't find a better place to learn anything and everything about him. good and bad...

 

[Matthew96br]

i wouldn't have put it so roughly

That's alright d gray, I should have made it clear in my original post. Whilst I first approached the piece with the intention of looking only at his perception, treatment, and portrayal of women, as that garners a lot of attention from readers, I do understand that he treated both men and women harshly at times. This could have been made clearer in the piece. Are there any decent examples from his personal life where he treats men in a similar manner? I know that there are numerous male figures in his writing that he treats with disdain, though I wondered if that transferred at all to the people he met in real life.

That you are shocked/ uncomfortable with the scene - is the right reaction

Thank you skygazer, I know it is an uncomfortable topic - and especially so when entering a forum where everybody is enamoured with Bukowski. That's why I thought it might be worth discussing again as I know a lot of younger readers will come away with similar reactions to me, and disregard the rest of his oeuvre because of those types of clips. Modern readers are particularly sensitive to these issues, but I wanted to use that as a way to further explore his work, rather than just ignore it completely.

Also guys - thanks for refraining from the ad hominem bombardment included in the first round of comments.

 

[Danny Mac]

Young lad. Read "Ham on Rye" and really try (try) to put yourself in his shoes. I for one was never hit by my father. My Mom was the enforcer. I got slapped when I did something wrong. I learned to avoid doing un-kind things. He got the crap beat out of him on a almost daily basis. We have to over look his short comings and be thankful and amazed as to what an amazing writer he became.

That's how I look at it.

Buk loved his women. I don't know how much he loved his male friends but he definitely loved his women.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You are talking about a 50 year old man in 1960-whatever. Compared to general society, Mr. Bukowski was at least informed enough to understand the there is no easy answer. He at least understood the question.

 

[mjp]

ad hominem.

 

[Short Bus]

I love Bukowski, but the way he treats women often disturbs me. Do we have a right to ignore that or overlook it when reading his works? There is video in this article which I'm sure a lot of people here have seen that still really shocks me...

http://www.incitingsparks.org/#!Charles-Bukowski-More-than-misogyny/p9ucr/56c1ad170cf255bb2b24301d

The shoes you wear, dope you smoke, coke you sniff,chocolate you eat, were probably provided from people who treat women a lot worse. And don;t get me started if you eat meat or like jokes about visible minorities (especially the funniest jokes). So why should your artists have a higher standard? I have friends who are comics trying to be the next Lenny Bruce and write non offensive material, I am sick of this sliding revisionist morality where that which doesn't directly affect or involve you is the most egregious.

The world is not a nice place. And while we are at it-who the fuck uses the word-whilst?? Buy a BBQ and grow a pair.

 

[seagull]

he was more of a misanthrope than misogynist; he was an equal opportunity disliker of men and women.

I agree!!

 

[yougetso]

That's how I look at it.

The Danny Mac attack!

@Matthew96br if you want to learn about the meaning of life and Bukowski, just click on Danny Macs avatar and read everything he's contributed to various threads on this web site.

And fear not the ad hominem attacks. They may be more a propos than you're apt to suppose.