Bukowski and Henry Miller

I know Miller's influence on Bukowski has been mentioned now and again in various threads but I find the parallels between the two fascinating, they're like two aspects of a single entity.
I was reading an essay on Miller by Kenneth Rexroth from the 60's earlier, and he describes Miller as a 'Lover of disharmony', taking almost sadistic, misanthropic pleasure in the eventual breakdown of mankind. In retrospect, Miller's alienation and misanthropy appears almost tame when compared to Buk's best polemics!
As Bukowski quit the Post Office, Miller took an even bigger leap of faith when he quit the "Cosmodemonic Cocksucking Corporation", left his wife and family and fled to Paris penniless with only his genius to declare.

Rexroth claims that what Miller found so invigorating about Pre-war Paris was that it reminded him of the Brooklyn of his childhood. 'Miller's Paris' triggered an eidetic memory of an unmediated, un-sanitized, gritty, 'true' America, where individualism still reigned and group-think collectivism was still relatively unheard of.
Miller escaped to Bohemia and ultimately metaphysics. Bukowski is like the younger brother who stayed at home, the younger aspect of Miller, preferring sensuality over intellectualism, still in love with the idea of being an all American loner, a drifter, an urban cowboy.
Both writers were intensely masculine and honest, both despised the yoke of wage slavery and 'family life' that Miller described as belonging to those "Heroic little souls whose very obsession is to liberate themselves from the thraldom of work served only to magnify the squalor and misery of their lives."

Miller chronicled bohemian depravity, Bukowski everyday blue-collar depravity and both achieved an almost supernatural lack of sentimentality in doing this.
Read Tropic of Capricorn and Ham on Rye together and the parallels are spooky.
Miller wrote of his hatred of Walt Disney,and Buk despised Disney's greatest creation 'Mickey Mouse'. Both wanted an America before the cartoon had overlaid the reality - both sort the truth out at great cost to themselves and their sanity.

Maybe Miller had sensed the birth of his 'younger brother' when he wrote in 1945:
"What I like about (some of the artists I've met in the U.S.), Is that they know enough not to want to do a stroke of honest work. They would rather beg, borrow and steal...They look at their fathers and Grandfathers, all brilliant successes in the world of American flapdoodle. They prefer to be shit-heels, if they have to be. Fine! I salute them. They Know what they want."
As Buk and Miller and many other people have found, becoming a 'shit-heel', quitting your job and just taking a long hard look at this world, is often the first and most important step to enlightenment.
 
Nice observations there Dogbreath. As I recall, Chinaski is reading Tropic of Capricon in Factotum.

Methinks it's about time I read it, too.
 
Nice post on Miller and Bukowski. Miller's Air-Conditioned Nightmare takes on the dismal plight of the artist in America "” he took a year off to travel the country and try to find the good in it, to little avail during the 1940s.

In Tropic of Capricorn Miller tears apart the Horatio Algers myth that destroyed so many lives, where one supposedly starts as a lowly janitor and works his way up the ladder of "success" to become the head cocksucker. His exposition on his days as an employment manager for Western Union is one of the greatest literary diatribes I've ever read: he goes on and on about the horror stories of those casualties who fell to their own self-destruction between the cracks in American capitalism.

Many have read Miller's Tropic of Cancer, but it's actually part one of a trilogy that includes Black Spring and Tropic of Capricorn. Tropic of Capricorn also takes the sexuality of Tropic of Cancer to its next level where he gives his accounts of his early sexual exploits "” almost as if the entire book was written in one long breath. Highly recommended for those who like completely uncensored writing and honesty.

Miller appeared more enamored of Bukowski's writing than the other way around, except when Miller was writing about sex. (The Bukowski Tapes.) Bukowski mentions that he thought Miller was too wordy and had his head too much in the stars. I think Bukowski's reading of Miller may have been limited and he underestimated Miller's tremendous range of interests and missed out on Miller's optimism. Miller's scope was comprehensive and included a deep interest in mysticism as well as sexuality -- such as the teachings of the great Indian sages Ramakrishna and Krishnamurti. Nevertheless, both writers had a great deal in common and not only American but world literature would be unthinkable without both of them.
 
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1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
I too would recommend "Air-Conditioned Nightmare". an (unfortunately) timeless piece. and of course "Cancer" & "Capicorn" and all of the others.
 
I like Miller but from what I recall Buk didn't fancy him.

I don't find them that similiar though I can see how someone would. I think of Miller as being optomistic and Buk pessimistic in general.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I agree, slimedog, about the optimist vs pessimist. There are parallels, but Miller is always whistling a happy tune while Bukowski is pulling down the shades. Still, great observations, dogbreath. Miller is definitely worth reading. I think Bukowski sold him short. He's now largely forgotten (or just ignored), but he liberated many minds in his day, and is still a great read.
 
I do really love Miller's stuff and I think a lot of people who are aligned with buk's sensibility will get a hell of a lot from reading Miller's books too - maybe a little ray of hope! Read Miller's essay: 'On turning Eighty.' Its simply beautiful.

I like what you said about the pessimism/optimism duality between Miller and Bukowski Poptop, that was an important point.
As someone once said about Samuel Beckett, Bukowski is a writer of 'consolation' not 'inspiration'.

P.S. Miller was a better painter anyhow.:cool:
 

nervas

more crickets than friends
I think Bukowski sold him short. He's now largely forgotten (or just ignored), but he liberated many minds in his day, and is still a great read.

Well Henry Rollins sure loves Henry Miller! Not that it means anything. But I can't remember reading a Henry Rollins book, where he did not mention how phenomenal Miller was. I've read "Cancer" and agree with many members here, Miller is definately an enjoyable read.
 
I don't think Miller is forgotton but I do believe Buk sold him short.

I worked with a fellow once whose favorite was Miller and he liked Buk but didn't consider him a serious writer for some reason.

Rollins, whose music I like more than his writing, is big on Hubert Selby. I would really recommend him to those who haven't read him. I recently read The Willow Tree by him, very good book.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
{...} P.S. Miller was a better painter anyhow.:cool:

I think Bukowski's a better painter. Miller struggled, labored, over details like how to draw a nose. There is a tightness to his work. I like it, but it's not really free. Buk, on the other hand, just said screw it, this will be the nose! His painting is very free, and as a result, much more alive.
 
I do really love Miller's stuff and I think a lot of people who are aligned with buk's sensibility will get a hell of a lot from reading Miller's books too - maybe a little ray of hope! Read Miller's essay: 'On turning Eighty.' Its simply beautiful.

I like what you said about the pessimism/optimism duality between Miller and Bukowski Poptop, that was an important point.
As someone once said about Samuel Beckett, Bukowski is a writer of 'consolation' not 'inspiration'.

P.S. Miller was a better painter anyhow.:cool:
Enjoyed your comments. I think many readers would find a life-time of satisfaction, friendship and enjoyment, plus tremendous insight into life, with both Miller and Bukowski... I know I have, and I'm eternally grateful for the positive and constructive influences they've had on my life, starting when I first read Miller's sexually-explosive 'Sexus' in my early 20s. It was a rite of passage and I was never the same again. (Sexus is still the most underlined book of literature I've ever read... pages upon pages of highlighted passages... Miller at his best.)

I've read 'On Turning Eighty' and liked it.

I've been lucky enough to have one of Miller's lithographed watercolors and I recommend his book on painting: "To Paint is to Love Again." Pure joy. I learned a great deal about art appreciation from Miller, and overall, without saying in detail why, I consider him a greater artist than Bukowski. Let me quickly add that I enjoy them both. I think Bukowski's line drawings, his caricatures full of charm and humor, are Buk at his best, while so many of his paintings are consistently sloppy, muddy, a mess. He didn't seem to give a damn how his paintings turned out and was simply enjoying the act of putting paint to canvas, and if something happened to turn out well it was a happy accident. I've only seen maybe one or two of his that I would ever consider putting on my walls, because they lack the charm of his drawings, even if it's by the great Bukowski. (I that know others will strongly disagree.)

What I feel they had in common is that they both painted from the guts, but I consider Miller to have gone much farther into the art of painting itself, starting with his love of John Singer Sargent, who Miller and his father both thought tremendous and Miller wrote about. His best friend in New York, before Miller left for Paris, was an illustrator, and he deliberately hung out and studied with some of the famous artists in Paris. He also loved and studied the Japanese masters Hiroshige and Hokusai, and there's a particular joy that is evident in so very many of Miller's watercolors. He also had the critical faculty to know when one of his watercolors was a failure. "To Paint is to Love Again" has all his writings on his love and efforts as an artist. Everything I've ever come across in Bukowski's writings is where he's writing about art in passing and not as a joy or a study in itself; but he does talk about his efforts in painting. I think they knew they had limited abilities as artists. Still, I've found great enjoyment in Bukowski's line drawings and I consider some of them as spontaneous masterpieces in miniature...true art; and there are a great number of Miller watercolors that do nothing for me.
 
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Again, a bit late in the conversation, I would recommend that anyone considering reading something by Henry Miller should probably start with *Tropic of Cancer* ... it's the book with which his writing "took off" ... I would say that *Tropic of Capricorn* is not the place to start (it's much different -- even if HM thoughts that it was very important to him) ... if one wants to start with something shorter, try some of the pieces in *The Wisdom of the Heart* (readily available as a New Directions paperback) ... I would really recommend a genuine gem called *The World of Sex* but one HAS to find the original version (the readily available revised version is a shodow of the original, amazingly enough -- btw, I wrote a long essay on the differences between the two versions) ... even, a relatively non-serious piece called *Quite Days in Clichy* is not a bad place to enter Miller (somebody would surely object to this comment) ... save *Sexus*, *Plexus* and *Nexus* for later (if one ever gets to them) ... one has to have acquired a taste for the man's writing to really get into all three as a trilogy ...

What Miller really shared with CB was that both created important "moments" in the history of 20th century literature (Miller during his time in Paris and, I would argue, CB in the 1970s) ...

There is some danger of the achievement of Henry Miller being ultimately forgotten ... frankly, some of the major writers of the 20th century struggled with matters that are now taken for granted ... and their proposals are often quaint, by today's standards ... but, heck, *Tropic of Cancer* is a great reading experience! Cheers, DaP P.S. So is the original version of Miller's *The World of Sex* ...
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
D. A.: can a cheap copy of the original version be found, or is it a matter of having the first edition?
 
I must confess I wasn't that taken by Henry Miller. I read Tropic of Cancer and, while I thought it had some good parts to it (not a double entendre) I found it a bit tedious by the end and didn't feel motivated to check out any of his other stuff. I appreciate his place in changing the way people could write about sex etc. in America and so on but, coming from the era I do, didn't really find it shocking in any way.
 
not shocking

I never thought it was particularly shocking either. I never understood how it could be considered pornography, even by the standards of it's day. But I loved it more than anything I'd read up to that point, and I read all of his stuff. I definitely feel like reading Miller prepared me for reading Bukowski. When I first read Post Office after having read the Tropics (Cancer and Capricorn) and the Trilogy (Sexus, Plexus, and Nexus), I felt right at home.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
You had to be there, in the severely repressed world pre-1960s, to understand how shocking, how revolutionary Miller was. Now cartoons use four-letter words and sitcoms mention sex organs. It was a far different world back then. Miller busted it wide open. Without Miller and other mavericks like him in the 1920s-30s, the 60s counterculture might not have ever happened. And you'd be watching reruns of I LOVE LUCY and reading LITTLE ABNER comicbooks.
 

1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
I never thought it was particularly shocking either. I never understood how it could be considered pornography, even by the standards of it's day.

Try "Under The Roofs Of Paris" maybe not considered one of his novels. I believe that he was being paid by the page. But if this isn't considered porn, I don't know what would be.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
In his day, and well into the early 60s, there was nothing out there, other than actual under the counter porn books, that were anywhere near as explicit as Miller's work. And Miller was considered literature, not pornography. His books had to be smuggled into the U.S. until a landmark court decision made them legal. It was extreme stuff. Without that legal precident, I doubt you would have had a book like ERECTIONS, EJACULATIONS etc. being published a few years later as legitimate literature from a reputable house like City Lights.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I've always found Anais Nin an interesting person. I realize that as a writer she is too precious for most tastes, kind of a hothouse flower, but she was very perceptive and wide open on all channels. I'm currently reading her diary, and it's good stuff. Her insights into Henry Miller and his wife June are profound. She had them figured out. Well worth the time if you're into Miller. Speaking of Miller, many readers may not be aware that he had several modes. It wasn't all erotica. He often wrote in a comic mode, as well as a metaphysical/spiritual/wisdom mode. Some of his best stuff is not obscene. I haven't read much of Nin's work other than the diary, but I plan to. My wife works in a used bookstore and tells me that there is almost no demand these days for either Miller or Nin. I gather they were more popular in the 1970s. That's fine with me; makes their books easier to find and more affordable.
 
Under the Rooftops of Paris is definitely pornography. But his novels never struck me that way. Nin wrote some (fairly soft) porn too. I know it well because it was the closest thing to pornography in my local public library when I was a kid. I loved the diary (or at least that chunk around the time that Miller was in Paris), and read a bio and but I could never finish anything else. She was a fascinating woman though.
 
I have 1st hardcovers of Anais Nin's Diary Vol 3-5, plus Anais Nin Reader. And a couple of soft-covers; Little Birds comes to mind. Moved recently; can't find those.

They really don't do too much for me. Many women I have known like 'em, so I didn't marry them. I married the one who dug Post Office. (No, that wasn't the kicker.)
 

Johannes

Founding member
I couldn't get out much of Nin's Diarys.

"Henry came over. Hugo is a savage. It is the ARTIST in me, who knows Henry today. Hugo picked me up from the train station. Henry still visits his whores. Still I love Hugo. The ARTIST in me had some coffee in the afternoon. Henry doesn't understand June. June doesn't understand Henry. The ARTIST in me understands everything."
 
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Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Johannes, that is a riot. Great parody. But come on, she's actually better than that. (It is a parody right, and not a quote? If it's a quote, you win the argument and those of us who like Nin fold our tents and hit the sands)

That Nin "quote" would make a great broadside poem. Capitalizing ARTIST every time is sheer genius.
 

Johannes

Founding member
No, it's a humble parody. Or should be. Too much if that would be a literal quote, hehe. Jesus.

Of course she is better than that, but I'd expected more. I've never tried her novels, though.

Would you recommend them?
 
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