Bukowski and Slam Poetry

[plasteredpoet]

I remeber reading a poem in one of Buk's older anthologies, I can't remember which. In the poem I remember him talking about the black poets and how they wrote. If memory serves it seemed he was commenting about the chips they all seemed to have on their shoulders. This may be inaccurate, if anyone knows the poem I would really appreciate being enlightened as to it's title and the book where it can be found.

I wonder what Buk would make of the whole "Russell Simmons Def Poetry Slam"? If I am remembering the poem correctly it seems he was right on the money, almost predicting this trend in the medium.

I dunno, it just seems that that show really cut the whole artform down like wheat, compartmentalizing the it. Unless you are a minority, lesbian or gay and have an agenda, a bone to pick with straight, white society then your poetry is worthless. You aren't emoting from anyplace that is real or that matters.

I don't know about you, but I am sick of agendas in poetry. One of the things that I love about Buk's work is that he wasn't trying to sway my opinion or get me crying about his hardship. He hated help, "He'd piss on you if he could" I believe is the line from Barfly.

I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on this.

 

[Joe Batters]

I'm not a fan of slams. I hate the whole rap/hip-hop delivery style and it's like watching a boxing match. Now these different Slam Crews are "starting beef" and all the other stupid bullshit that goes along with the whole ridiculous hip-hop scene.

 

[hank solo]

The poem you're refering to is 'The Black Poets' from 'Mockingbird Wish Me Luck'. It follows the poem called 'The White Poets'.

The White Poets (excerpt)

the white poets usually knock quite early
and keep knocking and ringing
ringing and knocking
even though all the shades are down;

[...]


"I was here before. you were rather short. you didn't like my
poems."
"there are plenty of reasons for not liking
poems."
"try these."
he put them on me. they were flatter than the paper they were typed
upon. there wasn't a tick or a
flare. not a sound. I'd never read
less.


"uh," I said, "uh-uh."


"you mean you don't LIKE
them?"


"there's nothing there---it's like a pot of evaporated piss."

[...]

the black poets (excerpt)


the black poets
young
come to my door---
"you Bukowski?"
"yeh. come in."


[...]

they hand me their poems.
I read
them.


"no," I say and hand them
back.


"you don't like
them?"


"no."


"'roi Jones came down to see us at our
workshop ..."


"I hate," I say,
"workshops."

[...]

"look muthafucka, I been on the radio, I been printed in the L.A.
Times!"


"oh?"

[...]

"o.k., muthafucka, you ain't seen the last of
me!"


I suppose I haven't. and it's useless to tell you that I am not
anti-black
because
somehow
that's when the whole subject becomes
sickening.

Again, what we see really is disdain for almost everyone who isn't Bukowski.

 

[plasteredpoet]

Yeah, that's the one. I remeber seeing it a couple years ago in the warehouse. I was pulling an order and ran across it on a shelf. Whenever I come to A book of Buk's I always flip it open to a random page and read whatever is there. This time it happened to be the poem you quoted.

Precisely, disdain for anything that isn't Bukowski indeed.

There are rare times in his books where he actually states that a poet wasn't bad but they are definitely few and far between.

I know that he and another poet were putting together a monthly poetry review years ago. It just makes you wonder what criteria he used to decide who got selected for inclusion.

I'm not a fan of slams. I hate the whole rap/hip-hop delivery style and it's like watching a boxing match. Now these different Slam Crews are "starting beef" and all the other stupid bullshit that goes along with the whole ridiculous hip-hop scene.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I appreciate rhyme and meter. I understand how it works, it just seems gimmicky to me when used this way. Like the writer has to add something tricky in order to make what he/she is saying palatable to the audiance.

And the whole "beef" thing. Whatever. Screw competition!

Or maybe not. Maybe I've got it all wrong. It's not about self expression or reportage from the frontlines of life, it's actually all about collecting accolades, prizes, prizes,prizes!!!!

 

[mjp]

I wonder what Buk would make of the whole "Russell Simmons Def Poetry Slam"?

He would have thought it was a pop culture fad, which it is. Or was. All those groovy pomo bohemians who created that pot of creamed corn have already moved on to other great new things that we don't know about yet. Meth enemas or kneecap piercing or something. You'll see.

 

[vodka]

Again, what we see really is disdain for almost everyone who isn't Bukowski.

agreed on both levels.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

He would have thought it was a pop culture fad, which it is. Or was. All those groovy pomo bohemians who created that pot of creamed corn have already moved on to other great new things that we don't know about yet. Meth enemas or kneecap piercing or something. You'll see.

Kneecap piercing?

And this:
Transrectal Methamphetamine Use: A Novel Route of
Exposure
Background: With the widespread abuse of methamphetamine, its
toxicity has been well described. The most common reported routes
of exposure include intravenous injection, intranasal insufflation,
smoking, and ingestion. To our knowledge, transrectal administration
of methamphetamine has not been publicized in the medical
literature.
Objective: To report a unique case of methamphetamine toxicity
following a self-administered methamphetamine enema.
Case Report: A 29-year-old woman reported that she mixed between
one half to 1 gram of methamphetamine with warm water in
an oral syringe and instilled the contents into her rectum. Within
minutes, she became anxious and experienced restlessness, palpitations,
and tingling in her extremities. Paramedics were called, and
the patient was transported to the emergency department. The patient
weighed 81 kg; blood pressure was 226/160 mm Hg, pulse rate
was 130 beats/min, respirations were 28 breaths/min, and oral temperature
was 37.3 °C. Immediately after administration of 3 mg of
intravenous lorazepam, the patient's mental status and vital signs
improved. Results of electrocardiography, blood chemistries, and
complete blood count were normal; results of a urine toxicology
screen were positive for amphetamines and tetrahydrocannabinol.
She was admitted for observation and given a second dose of intravenous
lorazepam. Her symptoms resolved completely over the next
20 hours without sequelae.

 

[falcune]

i watched a few of those def poetry shows. sometimes watching pure bullshit makes me happy. now i'm stuck with those pathetic monster movies on scifi where some big insect is killing the hell out of screwing teens.

 

[Hosh]

"A poet needs a stage like a fish needs a bicycle"...or some such thingy...

If a poem must be recorded (& it doesn't need to be), it should be in an empty room alone. At best, Slam is lyrical performance art. Write down the words/remove the performance aspect & what do you have?

 

[informal]

I've never seen the show def poetry but I have seen this on you tube.

[video gone]

I loved it.

 

[falcune]

it's like a school. most of the slam poets sound the same as most preachers sound the same. the guy's pretentious with his melodramatic pauses and change of pace along with the little sound of his voice that seems to say, "jesus, my words are great." they are not great. and he looks like bin laden.

 

[informal]

I'll give you the extra leg of me not being familiar with "slam poetry". But I found his words to be great, which I find to small of a word to describe his words.
I take it you're at least 35?

 

[mjp]

I take it you're at least 35?

If our poetry sucks, you're too old!

Ha ha. Yeah, that must be why.

 

[plasteredpoet]

thank you

for basically eximplifying my problem with slam poetry.

I will say that there are some good lines in his poem and even a few glimpses of thought that I can connect with on one level or another, but he is doing nothing more than presenting an agenda. And he is so OBVIOUS about it.

What relevance does the title have with the actual poem itself? If this guy actually stopped TRYING to look like someone who would be racially profiled before a flight then his poetry would have no relevance.

This is exactly what I find sickening about it, there are hundreds of people listening to this guy bitch about how hard it is to be him. Rallying against injustices that he probably created for himself so as to appear artistic.

What's the message? Unless you are someone obviously targeted for injustices (real or imagined) don't write poetry because you have nothing worthwhile to share?

 

[vodka]

i think it's a dangerous thing to lump an entire group of people into one genre and then say the entire genre sucks.

it's too easy.

i'm not the hugest fan of slam poetry or 'spoken word' but it just seems sort of unintelligent to dismiss the relevance of all the poets who write this way.

 

[number6horse]

What's the message? Unless you are someone obviously targeted for injustices (real or imagined) don't write poetry because you have nothing worthwhile to share?

That sums it up nicely, plasteredpoet.

The Chicago Public Radio Station WBEZ recently profiled some young poets/teenagers who participated in the "Louder Than A Bomb" poetry series. Before hearing the entire program, I had heard one excerpt and was excited to hear more. Problem was, EVERY SINGLE KID SOUNDED LIKE THE NEXT. It was all rhythm and rhyme, cadence, volume, dynamics, and most of all, racial identity. These days, you can't be a misunderstood teenager unless you're Puerto Rican, African-American. etc.. They were careful to include a Jewish kid to insure "diversity".

But the good news is that poetry will cure all of society's racial problems ! Yay !

 

[vodka]

the only thing it would take to expand these things would be for someone to come along and do it differently.

 

[plasteredpoet]

point taken

You're right about lumping them all together.

As I said, there are passages from various performances that I like. The main problem I see with it is what it has devolved into.

At it's inception there was some really interesting, entertaining stuff out there. I actually purchased a book of slam poetry verse years ago that contained a few real gems.

Ultimately it seems to have devolved into a droning chorus of malcontents stroking each other in a big circle and blasting "THE SYSTEM" whatever that is.

It seems that it has become more about the vanity of the speaker and less about the words that are being spoken

 

[mjp]

i think it's a dangerous thing to lump an entire group of people into one genre and then say the entire genre sucks.

it's too easy.

the only thing it would take to expand these things would be for someone to come along and do it differently.

But until someone does (don't hold your breath), I think the criticisms are valid. Based on what it is right now, which is a bunch of angst triggered by social awakening. Hey, there's nothing wrong with rediscovering everything. Every generation does it; "Wow, the world is such a fucked up place, why didn't anyone realize it before!"

The problem is, once you realize the same rediscovery goes on every 20 years, the relevance of the next generation's discovery of the things you discovered in the 80's, and the hippies discovered in the 60's, etc., etc., is minimal. Imagine a World War II veteran who waded onto a shitty beach somewhere knee deep in the blood of a hundred kids just like him, now it's 20 years later and you play him Bob Dylan's Masters of War. What's his reaction going to be? "Yeah, no shit, kid. By the way, learn to sing." This has been going on forever.

The slam/performance poetry is all the same, it has to be, there is a very strict format that it must follow. Is it an invalid form of art? No. Neither are pop or hip hop song lyrics. But both are ultimately disposable, unless you are at an age that will value them as nostalgia later down the road.

I only commented on informal's post because it infers that if you are over a certain age, you just don't get it. The point is, if you're over a certain age, you see it for what it is and discard it as irrelevant. Which is fine. It isn't being made for you.

 

[reasonknot]

speaking of which...i got my new NYQ the other day
i will let you know if any of the poetry is more interesting
than the editorial...

 

[vodka]

gotcha mjp.

i laughed a while back on Mary when someone had posted about emo that most of us were 'just too old to understand it the movement.'

i wonder what Bukowski would have thought of emo. laughing!!!

 

[plasteredpoet]

There's a bluebird in my heart........

 

[vodka]

yah yah yah.

i don't think he would have ever called himself 'emo' though.

i'm going to write a poem and title it

'Bukowski buys a black hoodie'

 

[mjp]

i'm going to write a poem and title it

'Bukowski buys a black hoodie'

Or a jacket named after himself...

 

[vodka]

laughing out loud!

$220.00 dollars???

let's make one for Father Luke for the laptop thread. all proceeds to to the cause.

Father Luke black hat. make a statement without saying anything.

only $320.00
cotton polyester blend

 

[jmoshea]

He would have thought it was a pop culture fad, which it is. Or was. All those groovy pomo bohemians who created that pot of creamed corn have already moved on to other great new things that we don't know about yet. Meth enemas or kneecap piercing or something. You'll see.

mmmmm....

Meth enemas.

 

[roni]

he still looks like 'The Edge'!

 

[bospress.net]

Yes, he still does.

At least he does not look like Bono....

 

[Joe Batters]

he still looks like 'The Edge'!

Whoa!

 

[Magick Stallion]

This is a great thread.

First of all, the competitive aspect of Poetry Slams is nauseating and completely frat-boyish.
I'm not saying the poets are, just the vehicle being used to judge, grade, and ultimately determine what is a "bad" poem from a "good" one, seems a bit goofy and pedantic.

Second of all, the presentation/performances are usually so dramatically obnoxious and self-righteous that I feel like I'm watching Henry Rollins on speed reading Eminem lyrics, rolling out a litany of complaints about how bad his childhood was, and how he never received a letter from his father.

I've gone to a few poetry slams myself, when I was a teenager, and never felt a connection with any of the poets up there.
They seemed to be hogging the light, doing verbal gymnastics just to get a grade from the crowd, while spending too much time focusing on their physical delivery of the word, than focusing on the words themselves.

I suppose I'm a snob and bucking the current modern trend of poetry, but that's the way I feel, when it comes to Poetry Slams.

I think I would rather listen to someone reading poetry than having someone act it out.
It all boils down to the page vs. the stage.