mjp
Founding member
So the new isn't valid unless you are accomplished at the old. Got it.
Bukowski and Slam Poetry
- Thread starter plasteredpoet
- Start date
vodka
Miss Take
mjp, i don't think that's what it's saying. i don't think it's a comment on whether or not either is valid, but whether or not you know what something is before you know what it is.
if that makes sense.
you're the staff here git to work
and that's kkthxbai.
don't tell me what kkthxbye means unless you've first mastered kkthxbai.
gawd.
if that makes sense.
Father Luke said:
you're the staff here git to work
and that's kkthxbai.
don't tell me what kkthxbye means unless you've first mastered kkthxbai.
gawd.
mjp
Founding member
No, I didn't misunderstand. In the context of the story (which sounds apocryphal anyway, like a chain email story that art college kids forward around) Picasso's cubism is justified by his ability to paint a landscape.
Where I come from, we call that bullshit (pardon my French!).
But who cares? Another argument about art. How exciting.
Let's say...Somebody takes the entire dictionary and slices every word and all of thier variations out. Then let's say they divide them into piles labeled Noun, Verb, Adjective, etc. Then they mix each pile up so there is a randomness to the words and draw them out to form random sentences.
So they do this for hours at a time and form the random sentences together to make poetry.
If, by some stretch of the imagination, one formulates what is considered to be a great work of literature utilizing this system does that make the person doing it a poet?
If someone who has never endeavored to try and make art one day slaps a few swathes onto a canvas and it sells for millions does that make the painter an artist?
So they do this for hours at a time and form the random sentences together to make poetry.
If, by some stretch of the imagination, one formulates what is considered to be a great work of literature utilizing this system does that make the person doing it a poet?
If someone who has never endeavored to try and make art one day slaps a few swathes onto a canvas and it sells for millions does that make the painter an artist?
I love Bukowskis slow conversational reading of poetry.
Slam poetry is too hasty, to rushed, to short attention span, like the poet needs to rush off to the bathroom, or can't slow down to read the poem. But, I know they are different types of poets and poetry. I love a rant. But, not all the time, don't slam everything down, read it gently, and slam the meaning!
Slam poetry is too hasty, to rushed, to short attention span, like the poet needs to rush off to the bathroom, or can't slow down to read the poem. But, I know they are different types of poets and poetry. I love a rant. But, not all the time, don't slam everything down, read it gently, and slam the meaning!
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
In university,I studied creation.
I took drawing classes with an excellent artist named Arto. He demanded perfection, taught us how to look at things, never encercling shapes,to procede by recognizing light and dark, to work from within the object, to become the subject .
Before I get kicked in the ass, I need to say that he was an abstract painter.
That said, he told me repeatedly that learning to draw was like vocabulary to a writer, same as practising ranges on the piano for a musician.
Creativity to me is another animal. Sure you can create without training . You may have a natural sense of balance with shape and color and become a wonderful graphic artist, colorist and painter. As far as representing an object or even suggesting it with a dot for example, you do need to learn how to look at it and keep the absolute essence, to put the dot in the right place.
Technical skills and creativity combined is a plus in my opinion.
So, no, I would not admire a plain jar of piss either, perhaps, in a colored jar, in motion, with sound effects. . . :D
But what do I know?
Simplicity never ceases to amaze me.
I took drawing classes with an excellent artist named Arto. He demanded perfection, taught us how to look at things, never encercling shapes,to procede by recognizing light and dark, to work from within the object, to become the subject .
Before I get kicked in the ass, I need to say that he was an abstract painter.
That said, he told me repeatedly that learning to draw was like vocabulary to a writer, same as practising ranges on the piano for a musician.
Creativity to me is another animal. Sure you can create without training . You may have a natural sense of balance with shape and color and become a wonderful graphic artist, colorist and painter. As far as representing an object or even suggesting it with a dot for example, you do need to learn how to look at it and keep the absolute essence, to put the dot in the right place.
Technical skills and creativity combined is a plus in my opinion.
So, no, I would not admire a plain jar of piss either, perhaps, in a colored jar, in motion, with sound effects. . . :D
But what do I know?
Simplicity never ceases to amaze me.
mjp
Founding member
Come back when either of those things happen and I'll give you a definitive answer.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
My $0.02.
My sculpture teacher in City College, said " Look at something and recreate it the way you want. Bring out the parts the colors the things about it you see and present it for the viewer. The way you want."
Then the reality of art is someone must buy it. Whether you get cash or some trade ( like getting laid or whatever. ) Oh, that's right artists do it for the love of their art. They still want acceptance is some form.
Slam poetry is too rushed for my taste too, but it isn't all bad.
My sculpture teacher in City College, said " Look at something and recreate it the way you want. Bring out the parts the colors the things about it you see and present it for the viewer. The way you want."
Then the reality of art is someone must buy it. Whether you get cash or some trade ( like getting laid or whatever. ) Oh, that's right artists do it for the love of their art. They still want acceptance is some form.
Slam poetry is too rushed for my taste too, but it isn't all bad.
I say one of them already has. Check out the film "My Kid Could Paint That" and then tell me that that kid had any structured learning in the field of art.
That is, if you believe that the kid painted the canvases, I'm not so sure I do.
But at face value this film is telling us that what I said has happened.
That is, if you believe that the kid painted the canvases, I'm not so sure I do.
But at face value this film is telling us that what I said has happened.
mjp
Founding member
Neither do I. Since no one but her father has ever actually witnessed her genius at work.
Next example, please.
and her father was a struggling painter.
hmmmm.
hmmmm.
number6horse
okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
Dude, that is just way too de-constructionist for me.
it seems to me that one biggie with poems is silence with bukowski it was from one line to another with slam it seems like the whole idea is putting off silence and putting it off and putting it off until the poem is over so maybe its a little like a paragraph from proust and sometimes its comforting to stand under niagra falls and then walk away and say Holy shit that was loud! and sometimes its more fitting to just sit down by a babbling brook and watch your old hound dog nibble at the rotting carcass of a rabbit while the sun and shadows from leaves are doing a wind-blown tango on the riverbank and birds sing songs telling eachother to get their own damn branch
jordan
lothario speedwagon
i can't believe i agree with olaf about something. but here i am...
its like the world is hacked down
to one big glowing announcement of
preferences
does anybody else out there not care a lick
for what anybody wants?
or likes?
or loves?
Innumerable times I've heard some exasperated
crack pot parent
demanding of some infant:
"what do you want?"
people like that are teaching their children
to sit on the outside and
curl their hair
and pretend that they're not
also on the inside
like some academic fucking debate
over whether slow
is better
than fast
gentle
better than
rock fucking hard
it sure is smooth to speak freely here
in the crotchety shadow
of my old man
to one big glowing announcement of
preferences
does anybody else out there not care a lick
for what anybody wants?
or likes?
or loves?
Innumerable times I've heard some exasperated
crack pot parent
demanding of some infant:
"what do you want?"
people like that are teaching their children
to sit on the outside and
curl their hair
and pretend that they're not
also on the inside
like some academic fucking debate
over whether slow
is better
than fast
gentle
better than
rock fucking hard
it sure is smooth to speak freely here
in the crotchety shadow
of my old man
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
cut it out if that's where its at dang it somebody asked me if that was a poem or a post and then they sent in the dogs to agree and now maybe they'll clean up my untidy contributions to a web site about bukowski. to answer the question about what it is, i made it up there on the spot while reading over the postings on this page so its a post. Maybe its not the conversational style that you guys are used to and maybe people would be happy to jump around bellowing that if it is a poem then it surely is crap and definitely not worthy of a chapbook. bahh. i have the feeling of being censored at my old mans funeral. what i wrote about silence and spaces and bukowski and slam poetry has got to fit well within the tidy framework of the rules of this site whatever they may be. those other words, about wanting and liking and preferences and all that crap that maybe didn't have much to do with bukowski but rather with some of the commentary i've happened upon here, which gives me the runs because it doesn't seem to get face first into the stuff in question, it just sort of blandly judges it as 'i like this, i don't like that, and here on my left is a really great young poet and i'm sure you will agree, but over there what those other guys are doing, that's not so nice'
anyhow if you delete my posting thats just one more mediocre poem slash spontaneous insight slash out of place commentary never to be heard from again
so much for kindred spirits
anyhow if you delete my posting thats just one more mediocre poem slash spontaneous insight slash out of place commentary never to be heard from again
so much for kindred spirits
... okay, so the fallout shelter is this way? Is there something to drink in there?
btw, the dogs around here are a friendly bunch.
Do you feel like introducing yourself?
btw, the dogs around here are a friendly bunch.
Do you feel like introducing yourself?
mjp
Founding member
Honey, you'll need a thicker skin than that if you're going to throw your hat into the ring in the vicious and bloody world of full contact poetry.
This place exists in relative peace because there are a few simple rules in place. One of those rules is: you can't post your poetry wherever you'd like. They have to go into one thread designated for poems. Look around. You'll find it.
Your post that begins, "its like the world is hacked down," sounds like a poem to me. I didn't say it was a good or bad poem. I thought it should be moved to the poetry thread, but I was giving you the opportunity to defend it as a post.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
growing beard you have been treated fairly.
Full contact poetry, a new spectator sport.
Full contact poetry, a new spectator sport.
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
With this, possibly, in mind:
STONECLOUD: Have you ever tried like Charles Olson to construct theories about the way you write poetry? Line breaks, form, rhythm, etc.?
BUKOWSKI: I stay away from these Olsen essays and all that. I think I've broken through more or less to the common language. But we don't want to make it too common. I think the mistake that some of the black writers are making is - oh Christ, this'll probably be construed as anti-black, but it isn't - the mistake is that the language is too common, like "Hey baby, big train..."
STONECLOUD: You mean because their language belongs to everybody, and therefore to no one poet?
BUKOWSKI: It's kind of like flaunting the street language, instead of using it. I think they gotta calm down a little before they get to it. They've missed the mark there so far. What you end up with is a lot of cliches and platitudes posing as wisdom. If you use the common language, you've still got to stay away from the cliche and the platitude. I think that's where they make their mistake.
From the words section of this site.
STONECLOUD: Have you ever tried like Charles Olson to construct theories about the way you write poetry? Line breaks, form, rhythm, etc.?
BUKOWSKI: I stay away from these Olsen essays and all that. I think I've broken through more or less to the common language. But we don't want to make it too common. I think the mistake that some of the black writers are making is - oh Christ, this'll probably be construed as anti-black, but it isn't - the mistake is that the language is too common, like "Hey baby, big train..."
STONECLOUD: You mean because their language belongs to everybody, and therefore to no one poet?
BUKOWSKI: It's kind of like flaunting the street language, instead of using it. I think they gotta calm down a little before they get to it. They've missed the mark there so far. What you end up with is a lot of cliches and platitudes posing as wisdom. If you use the common language, you've still got to stay away from the cliche and the platitude. I think that's where they make their mistake.
From the words section of this site.
number6horse
okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
This is not my poem
it is not even my short story
it might be my draft for a screenplay
but Charles Bronson is dead
Bukowski is taking lessons on drawing from Picasso
as he shows him how to bet on the horses
Slam, rap, whatever-it's words
it gets my blessing
but it's all short attention span now
it is not even my short story
it might be my draft for a screenplay
but Charles Bronson is dead
Bukowski is taking lessons on drawing from Picasso
as he shows him how to bet on the horses
Slam, rap, whatever-it's words
it gets my blessing
but it's all short attention span now
vodka
Miss Take
i don't think this particular distaste of mine has to do so much with short attention span as it does with effective use of words.
which is not to say it was all bad.
like i said, there really were some exceptional poems.
i don't know what all that is going on about black writers above.
ninety nine percent of these people were white.
which is not to say it was all bad.
like i said, there really were some exceptional poems.
i don't know what all that is going on about black writers above.
ninety nine percent of these people were white.