Bukowski and Women

S

SouthernGentleman

Hello everyone,

I've studied Bukowski's work for some time now, but I did not discover this forum until just minutes ago. I can already tell that I will enjoy this place.

For some time I have thought about Bukowski's dealings with women, and I have compared them with my own. Whatever succcess Bukowski had with women, he clearly took a deviant approach. He did not play phone games. He did not act cute. And he was ugly on top of that. Yet if Women is true to life, Bukowski did all right in spite of his disadvantages. And so there must have been something there. So, guys and girls, I have some questions that may be fun to discuss.

1) How realistic do Bukowski's encounters with women seem? Is this really how you see things play out in life? In your life?

2) What advantages did he have? What sort of allure?

3) What disadvantages did he have, other than the obvious ones?

Yours,

SouthernGentleman
 
Bill Sikes

Bill Sikes

It's interesting thing that I just recently discovered the fact that I was UGLY! Try looking at your profile. My nose is like a beak of California Condor, and just as big. Thus, the explanation why I couldn't get the women I LIKED!

I guess, that was his advantage? He was aware that he was ugly, and never expected much. Like, he didn't TRY?
 
S

SouthernGentleman

That's a good point, Bukfan. According to Sean Connery's character in the movie Finding Forrester, "Women will sleep with you if you write a bad book."

But he does seem to have some measure of success before his fame. In Factotum, for example, Jan says to him: "You're a hooker, you can hook women." (Ch. 59). And in Post Office he does his fair share of womanizing, starting on the first page.
 
A

adrian

A lot of women are attracted to 'bad' boys (such as women that write to and end up hooking up with prisoners). IMO a lot of it is to do with their nurturing instincts and wanting to make things 'right' for them. None of them made it 'right' for Bukowski until perhaps the last Linda and a lot of this may have been to do with him growing older and becoming naturally less displaced from the human race

I'm still not so sure how so many women came across his writings and liked what they read. His writing surely struck much more of a chord with men, rather than women?

Speaking of women, that Cupcakes one in Born Into This didn't look like she wanted to be there and she definitely didn't seem to have any idea about what was going on :confused:

I find it interesting that there's quite a number of poems about Jane, some which were written years and decades after she's died
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
adrian said:
Speaking of women, that Cupcakes one in Born Into This didn't look like she wanted to be there and she definitely didn't seem to have any idea about what was going on :confused:
Click to expand...
Well, she posts here sometimes, maybe she'll tell you if she knew what was going on.

Who knows what anyone knows. "If you remember the 60's (or 70's), you weren't there," right? ;)
 
bright

bright

Well, if i had been a young gayBoy at the chelseyHotel, when Burroughs was there, I would have wanted to suck his cook too, i guess.
I mean, wouldnt it be hip, and then i would appear as his mouse in his interviews and one camera will atract other cameras and i will be a STAR-FAMOUS ...Blabla.
I guess theres a very similar story right here.
Then again, anyone knows.

:)
 
bogthing

bogthing

No, no, that's someone else. If you've seen "Born Into This" she's in there. The lady on the avatar is...well, I don't want to be judgemental now...
 
Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
SouthernGentleman said:
Hello everyone,

I've studied Bukowski's work for some time now, but I did not discover this forum until just minutes ago. I can already tell that I will enjoy this place.

For some time I have thought about Bukowski's dealings with women, and I have compared them with my own. Whatever succcess Bukowski had with women, he clearly took a deviant approach. He did not play phone games. He did not act cute. And he was ugly on top of that. Yet if Women is true to life, Bukowski did all right in spite of his disadvantages. And so there must have been something there. So, guys and girls, I have some questions that may be fun to discuss.

1) How realistic do Bukowski's encounters with women seem? Is this really how you see things play out in life? In your life?

2) What advantages did he have? What sort of allure?

3) What disadvantages did he have, other than the obvious ones?

Yours,

SouthernGentleman
Click to expand...

Having read Bukowski quite a lot and being a woman I would think that Bukowski had style. If he was pushing weights he must have had a certain pride and self assurance. He had hair...Being such a good observer and sarcastic on top of that must have been fun if you were not the target. As Bukfan said, he became popular with better looking women only once he got famous. I think that he was a good listener (did I read that or what?) And he often mention his good legs... His disadvantages were that he would get too drunk and pass out or throw up or would become intolerant or all of the above.
Prior to his fame he would generally pick up women who would drink with him. That is easily done. To write about it was his gift. That is attractive...
 
Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
adrian said:
But I don't think too many men wanted to sleep with him after he left the post office ;)
Click to expand...

Adrian
I am sure that many men wanted to sleep with him too... especially after he left the post office and had started to stand on his own... I do not think that he was into that though. At the time being gay was very unpopular and meant trouble . He was the man...
 
Short Bus

Short Bus

Hold on a second!!

Lets be clear if Buk is hanging out in cheap bars then ANYONE who wants to, can have as many woman as they want want to becuase only women those on the last legs of luck go to these places.
he coud have been anything and he would still get laid.
We are not talking about beautiful women with wonderful personalities we are talking about women who in all liklihood had rotten lives (and livers) before meeting him.
As long as there was a free drink at home there was always a chance.

As any girl knows if your not choosey you can get laid every night of the week.
Trolling skid row with a bottle is like a win/win for losers.
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Remember the story from John Martin about meeting two young beautiful European women that were sitting on Buk's porch waiting for him to get home so that they could Fuck him. I think that the story was in Born Into This.

When he became famous, he did not need to go to them. They came to him.

Bill
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
And remember that during the years before they came to him, he did not see a lot of action. Not an aggressor, I think it's safe to say. He did better when he was pursued. ;)
 
Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
His fame is what attracted Linda Lee as well. I am pretty sure that she would not have given him the time of day if he slept on a park bench.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
Wow.
It's pretty presumptuous to assume you know the first thing about what dynamic existed between LLB and CB.
Fame?
Talent?
Intelligence?
Charm?
Wit?
More?
Less?
All of the above...and not?

I don't know. Do you?
 
Ponder

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Right, in Women Buk is talking about 2 German hippies, Martin said they were Dutch. I didn't meet them, yet.
 
Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
ROC said:
Wow.
It's pretty presumptuous to assume you know the first thing about what dynamic existed between LLB and CB.
Fame?
Talent?
Intelligence?
Charm?
Wit?
More?
Less?
All of the above...and not?

I don't know. Do you?
Click to expand...
It is not a presumptuous statement, it is simply a rational one.
I am saying that if CB were not famous, LLB would not have wanted to go to that reading to meet him . His charm...his intelligence...his wit... his all of the above, to borrow your language is what ensued from their meeting. In other words LLB would not have discovered him without him being on the cultural map of LA. She went to a reading because she had heard of him. He was famous, and it was and is a prestigious thing to be introduced to such an original writer. Buk was a center of culture in CA at that period and was even starting to enjoy an international career.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
I know Buk was famous but you say, "His fame is what attracted Linda Lee as well."
Unless you are LLB, I don't think you or anyone else can say that with any degree of certainty.
If she had read some of his stuff but he was not famous, she would not have been interested in going to his reading?

Yours is not an unreasonable statement... it just bothers me that you state it as a matter of fact - which it isn't - it's just your opinion - hence, presumptuous.
You (and I) don't really know one way or the other.
 
Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Like bees are attracted to flowers. Not an opinion, but a fact...
 
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ROC

ROC

It is what it is
Like Dubya or his right-wing religious looney friends - not an opinion but a dogma.
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
Ponder said:
Right, in Women Buk is talking about 2 German hippies, Martin said they were Dutch. I didn't meet them, yet.
Click to expand...
That story has been told by Bukowski many times over the years in many different versions. I was surprised to hear Martin relate it as something he experienced, since in all the times Bukowski typed or told the story the witness was never a publisher, but always a mail carrier or a neighbor.

But what do I know.
 
Ponder

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
I visited the USA many times and they're often joking, are you from Sweden? No I'm from Holland. Oh that's the same, they say :)

And I don't tell them anymore I'm from the Netherlands, most of them don't know what the Netherlands is!
 
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