Bukowski poems set to music

C

Composer

@bospress, I agree there's a practical advantage in sitting down with the poet/novelist/libettist and go over a project together, espcially if there are multiple interpretations of some text is unclear and one wants to remain faithful to the author's meaning. But I don't believe there's any moral "right" or "wrong" about it, just that (in this case) a Bukowski poem set to music is a different experience than his words read by himself. It can be uncomfortable to experience an adaptation when one knows the original, as when one ses a film made from a favorite novel.

Of all the poets I've come across, none more than Bukowski seemed more interested in "classical music" (his term). Aside form his many references to pieces he listens to, he repeatedly uses the piano as a metaphor for his typewriter, or his work generally. So I don't think it's much of a stretch to adapt some of his work musically.

@mip, may I quote you on the CD cover? "Noodling, masturbatory auditory torture" has a nice ring to it.

Some poets, I believe T S Eliot was one, flatly refused to allow his work to be adapted in any form. Vincent Persicheti wrote "The Hollow Men" for trumpet and orchestra, meant to "evoke" the poem, which is as close as he could get. Others give permission only if their poems are used without changes or abridgements. Still others tend to disassociate artistically from their work since it's finished and published, and give permission easily.

Using a poem as sung text does change it, but the same is true when a novel is made into a film, or to a less extent when somebody else reads a poet's work aloud. And if you mean it's wrong in some moral sense to adapt a writer's work unless you know he or she approves, why would that change once the copyright has expired?
 

mjp

Founding member
Composer to bukowskidotnet 5:58 AM
Please note that a post on one of your forums includes a photograph of me that was copied from my web site. As stated on my site, all media in copyrighted and may not be copied or upladeded without writtten permission.
As permission was not granted, I must ask that you have the photograph removed immediately.
bukowski.net/forum/showthread.php?7307-Bukowski-poems-set-to-music
posted by mjp on 9/5/2010 @12:07am.
Thank you for you cooperation.
John Charles Melcher


---

Mr. Melcher,

My humble apologies. The picture has been removed.

In its place, I present my adaptation of the picture.


douchebag.jpg
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Hahaha! Great reply, mjp.
Jeez! It looks L. Ron Hubbard's younger brother - on drugs.
 
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C

Composer

... changing a poets inflection and meaning once they are dead is wrong. now if they are Public Domain, then they are fair game...

Wrong in what sense specifically? And why would public domain make a difference in that case? Actualy, setting ANY words to music is not very organic; it usually works better if a musical or verbal "hook" comes first, and it grows from there. Paul Simon described his process this way. The challenge I had was trying to take fully-finished poems and NOT distort them to fit where I wanted the music to go.
 

mjp

Founding member
Wrong in what sense specifically?
Wrong in that they are poems, not lyrics. More to the point,they are not your poems, so it's really not up to you to decide to murder them by trying to make them into lyrics. To graft them onto your shit "music."

There is no reason to exploit and piggyback on a superior talent, unless you are talentless yourself.

It's clear that you don't understand that, which is a big part of why you're an idiot. Not the entire reason, obviously, but a big part.
 
C

Composer

Mr. Melcher,

My humble apologies. The picture has been removed.

In its place, I present my adaptation of the picture.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get a visa photo in Thailand in a studio without air-con! As the legal owner of this image, I have the exclusive right to make derivative works, but I'm willing to negotiate if you wish to secure the rights. :) Actually, I'm very grateful for the free publicity and increased web site traffic that your posts have generated!

I use a computer, requiring the use of both hands, so real "masturbatory noodling" is impossible during the creative process. However, you may indeed find that some of these songs, in particular "Schoolgirls in Panty Hose", provide excellent masturbation fantasies. I encourage you to explore this and let me know of your success.

Also, you'll be happy to know that the CD packaging is 100% compostible, so you might want to buy several to insure a good tomato crop next year.

Anyway, I get your point. You believe that the words of any poet, or at least your beloved Buk, should never be translated into other form, ever, and that anyone who tries is by that very fact (the correct translation of ipso facto) pretentious and pompous. I disagree, and can think of many historical examples. Carmina Burana works better as a musical work than just a collection of old poems.
 
Did you know that some of Bukowski's poems have been set to music, for jazz band and choir? The recording was made by an English choir, Hertfordshire Chorus, and the settings composed by an American-born jazz pianist, Roland Perrin. The album is called 'songs from the cage' and you can listen/buy downloads from iTunes or Amazon.

Sorry, I just checked out this recording. Tragically misconceived. I was laughing out loud wondering how anybody could get that up tempo, chipper vibe off of Bukowski, esp Roll the Dice.

Whether or not this sort of experimentation should be allowed or encouraged is another matter. Doesn't bother me that people try to get creative with stuff, although if the artist is alive then they have rights over their work. Even then, sampling, mashups, and all manner of hybridizing can be interesting. I remember the band Negativland getting into trouble with U2 for sampling in the 80s.
 
C

Composer

Wrong in that they are poems, not lyrics. More to the point,they are not your poems, so it's really not up to you to decide to murder them by trying to make them into lyrics.

Of course not, it's up to the copyright holder to decide. Whether the music is shit, or it's great music rescuing shit poetry (as many people still think of Bukowski's work), or a synergy of two art forms is a completely different question, which can't be answered by you or me.

I do respect your right to insult anyone who violates your artistic credo, and to adopt an aggressive antisocial atttude, in the hope that if you ACT like Bukowski, perhaps you'll WRITE as well as he did. How's that working for you so far?
 
Of course not, it's up to the copyright holder to decide. Whether the music is shit, or it's great music rescuing shit poetry (as many people still think of Bukowski's work), or a synergy of two art forms is a completely different question, which can't be answered by you or me.

I do respect your right to insult anyone who violates your artistic credo, and to adopt an aggressive antisocial atttude, in the hope that if you ACT like Bukowski, perhaps you'll WRITE as well as he did. How's that working for you so far?

Hey, Composer. I just checked out your site. Massive studio setup. How long you lived in Bangers? Hugely off topic I know, but I can't send you a personal message.
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
As the dust settles...

Just read "Full Moon", in What matters Most... page 93,
while I listened to Perrin's adaptation.
The poetry was colorful and the music sucked ass, big time! No cigar...
 

mjp

Founding member
As the legal owner of this image, I have the exclusive right to make derivative works...
But Bukowski's estate does not enjoy the same rights. Got it.

Anyway, I get your point. You believe that the words of any poet, or at least your beloved Buk, should never be translated into other form, ever, and that anyone who tries is by that very fact (the correct translation of ipso facto) pretentious and pompous.
No, I believe that anyone who "translates" another person's creative work is devoid of any creativity themselves. That you are pretentious and pompous is unrelated to your lack of creativity.

I hope that clears it up for you.
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
the reason the baritone will fail bukowski is that it is almost impossible to maintain a sufficiently smokey voice when hitting a low D... and we all know that it ain't nuthin' if it ain't SMOKEY!
 
C

Composer

Hey, Composer. I just checked out your site. Massive studio setup. How long you lived in Bangers? Hugely off topic I know, but I can't send you a personal message.
ON and off since 1990, but I moved here in 1997. The studio isn't large by Hollywood scoring standards, but it's enough to make finished recordings and thus not have to beg musicians for an under-rehearsed and sloppy performance..

the reason the baritone will fail bukowski is that it is almost impossible to maintain a sufficiently smokey voice when hitting a low D... and we all know that it ain't nuthin' if it ain't SMOKEY!
Ah, in this day of Autotune and VocAlign, anything is possible, especially making it sound as if your typical pop diva can sing.
 
C

Composer

What about the reverse - people taking instrumental music or songs, and adding or changing words? I cringe whenever I hear The Black-Eyed Peas do "Pump It" (Dick Dale's "Miserlou"), but there are probably some old Moravians pissed off at him for appropriating their folk song.

Or Elvis "adapting O Solo Mio (It's Now or Never) and Plaisir d'Amour (I Can't Help Falling in Love With You), among others? Or Stranger in Paradise (Borodin's Polovtsian Dances)? or Screamin Jay Hawkins' I Put a Spell on You, which is really Beethoven's Triple Concerto.
 
C

Composer

No, I believe that anyone who "translates" another person's creative work is devoid of any creativity themselves (sic).

So that would include:

Robert Schumann, Dichterlieder, poetry of Heinrich Heine;
Johannes Brahms, Five Songs Op. 104, poetry of Freidrich Rueckert, Max Kalbeck, KLaus Groth;
Gustav Mahler, Das Lied von der Erde, Chinese texts translated into German by Hans Bethge;
Carl Orff, Carmina Burana, medieval poetry;
Edgard Varese, Ecuatorial, texts by Anais Nin;
Pierre Boulez, Le Marteau Sans Maitre, poetry of Rene Char;
Witold LutosÅ‚awski Trois poémes d'Henri Michaux.
 
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