Bukowski readings.

[mjp]

I'll ask mjp to upload it for me/you.

Here it is:

https://bukowskiforum.com/images/misc/Locklin_Posters_and_closeup.gif

It's interesting that there are so few exact dates for readings. That, or he didn't do that many. Any time I find a date I add it to the timeline, but they are hard to come by.

 

[Petey]

hey all,
this source also says it was dated in 1972.
Just look one and a half minute from the beginning.

 

[Rekrab]

Quick note: I don't think that's the photo that was on John Kay's poster, but I could be wrong. Close, though.

The date John gives in the title to his piece in DRINKING WITH BUKOWSKI is 1972. I need to reread it. Not sure if he came up with that date or I did (I pulled three drafts of his into one piece -- all his memories and words, just my editing.) Probably he did, and it's probably right.

Another thing I can do is to take a look at some clippings I saved from the CSULB college newspaper about Bukowski's reading.

Also, my friend, the late poet and small press editior, Leo Mailman, may have written about that reading in his book, GRANDAD'S BRAIN, which I edited and published. You would think that I would better remember stuff I'd edited, but those were both (John and Leo's texts) years ago, and it's foggy. Memory is a lousy thing. The newspaper clippings, if they are there, will nail down the date for that second reading I saw.

And then I'm wondering if I didn't, in fact, write something at the time -- a note, a reference in a poem or story. It seems very strange that I made no record at all of Bukowski at the time it was happening. I have all my old writings and, honestly, remember very little about it all. If I have the time, I'll go looking at that stuff. Maybe I'll get lucky and find some "new" lost pieces on him.

More later, dudes...

Thanks for your observations and help on this puzzle.

 

[Rekrab]

1972 Reading Clipping

Miraculously, I found a copy of the CSULB "Forty-Niner" campus newspaper dated Friday, December 15, 1972. In a derisive article titled "English Students Publish Creations," Staff Writer Jim Schafer says John Kay brought Bukowski to read "a few weeks ago" in the Student Union. Here are scans:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/barkerbooks/BukClipping12-15-1972detail.gif

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/barkerbooks/BukClipping12-15-1972.gif

It mentions Lyn Lifshin and Brother Antoninus, so it must be the same event I remember (my "second" reading.) What confuses the hell out of me is that 1) I thought it was in 1971, and 2) in John Kay's article, he says he offered Buk $300 (not $200) to read six weeks earlier, at a publication party for ANTHOLOGY OF L.A. POETS that was held in March 1972, which would put the reading somewhere in April, 1972. Maybe he's recalling it wrong, or maybe there were two 1972 readings at CSULB?

I still need to look at Leo Mailman's articles to see what dates he gives for the 1972 reading, if any.

 

[hank solo]

Ok, re the City Lights Reading. Bukowski definitely read there in 1972. He talks about going "up to Frisco tomorrow" in a letter to Patricia Connell dated September 13, 1972 published in Living on Luck [p. 162]. In it he says "the auditorium holds 750 and they claim to be sold out. I hope they are. I get half the god damned take[...]" and that he has started seeing Linda King again. Interestingly he writes again on the 18th and says he is back with Liza Williams. Also, he tells Weissner he received $400 for the reading and split up with Linda while in San Francisco (Living on Luck, p.166).

 

[Bukfan]

Thanks, hank solo! Good research! So now it's cleared up for sure. It was in '72. The poster saying '73 must be a misprint then, as roni suggested...

 

[Rekrab]

Okay, I went back and reread my CHARLES BUKOWSKI SPIT IN MY FACE, for the first time in many years, and now I'm thoroughly confused. In his piece, John Kay describes two readings on the same day (in April ? 1972), one at noon and one in the evening. In my memoir, I talk about a morning reading in 1971, and then, a year later, an evening reading (i.e., in 1972). I say the evening one was part of the second annual Poetry Week event at CSULB. The artcle I found gives a date in Nov or early December 1972. So, I'm thinking that Bukowski may have read at two different Poetry Week events, in 1971 and 1972, or, my chronology in SPIT is completely messed up and I need to revise the book, or John Kay's memory was faulty and the March/April timeline he gives for the Poetry Week reading was wrong, and he really meant the November/December 1972 date. All very confusing. I'll ask John what he remembers about how many times Buk was at Poetry Week. And I still need to check Leo Mailman's book for details on the readings. I also need to read Locklin's A SURE BET, which I have but haven't yet read. I also need to look at mjp's timeline here on the Forum. It always amazes me that when you start to dig into the past, there are endless questions and mysteries. It's a miracle that any valid history gets written at all. I wouldn't mind revising my SPIT book. There are several errors in it, and stuff I could add, and maybe a bad chronology.

 

[Bukfan]

yes, often research raises more questions that it answers. When we get to the buttom of this, we may be able to make a timeline of those early readings. That would be nice...

 

[mjp]

In his piece, John Kay describes two readings on the same day (in April ? 1972), one at noon and one in the evening. [...] I also need to read Locklin's A SURE BET, which I have but haven't yet read.

Locklin also mentions two readings in one day at Long Beach in the Sure Bet piece "Two Poets," but doesn't give dates. The piece was written in '74, and describes what a pain Bukowski was on the day of the two readings and says, "So we didn't have him down to the college this spring..." Which kind of intimates that the readings he's talking about happened in 73, but it could have been 72.

 

[cirerita]

you can always ask Locklin. He still uses his Long Beach email.

 

[Rekrab]

I went through some old files today and found an article from the CSULB student newspaper written by my pal Leo Mailman, dated December 7, 1973, about Bukowski reading at "Poetry Week" at CSULB (I excerpted this article in Leo's last book, GRANDDAD'S BRAIN, but wanted to go to the original article to make sure I had the dates right). He says that reading was only three days after the Bukowski documentary aired on KCET channel 28, on November 26, making the reading date November 29th. Linda King also read that week. I didn't see these readings; I left California for Oregon in early 1973. I'll scan this article and post it later. So here's another early reading to add to the timeline.

 

[Bukfan]

Great detective work, David! - Soon we'll be able to make a timeline for those early readings...

 

[roni]

you can always ask Locklin.

o.k., seems we really should ask him. If anybody of you has done this already by now, please tell me. (don't wanna bother him with asking the same again.)
If not, I'll write to him this evening, all right.
I will also lead him to this thread, so he can see the growing confusion (concerning this quest) AND great work of research on this site first hand.
If he doesn't know it already, he'll be amazed by this place.

 

[Rekrab]

Good idea, please do. If we're lucky, he'll join in. I'm sure he knows a great deal more than I do about Bukowski, with far more firsthand experience.

 

[roni]

have sent email now. (I know, I'm one day late, sorry.)
Will keep you informed.

 

[Rekrab]

I wrote to John Kay, organizer of one of the Bukowski readings at CSULB, to ask if he remembers anything else in addition to what he wrote in his article "The Bukowski Reading: Long Beach, 1972" (in DRINKING WITH BUKOWSKI.)

He says he only was involved in that one Poetry Week event [the 1972 one, I think], and that Buk read twice that day, once at noon and once at night, as he wrote in the article. He wasn't involved in any other Poetry Week events and has no information on them.

So, the questions I have about an earlier reading at the Student Union, possibly in 1971, and an even earlier smaller reading in a classroom (1969 or 70?), remains unanswered.

 

[Rekrab]

I should add that I am beginning to suspect that my "1971 morning reading" may just be the badly remembered noon reading from the 1972 Poetry Week. However, I'm certain about having been at a smaller classroom reading about two years before that noon reading. I'd love to be able to nail the date down for that one.

 

[roni]

Here's what Gerry answered:


"...
The first time I brought Bukowski to campus was, I believe, in either 1969
or 1970. Barker, John Kay, and Leo Mailman were not involved in that
noontime reading.

A couple of years later John Kay brought him to campus. I'm still in touch
with John, who, in fact, has lived in Germany for years. He should be able
to clarify a lot of this for you. His email address is [xxx]
I wrote about the first reading in my essay Meeting Charles Bukowski in ASB.
I wrote about the other in my essay Two Poets in ASB.

Our library's Special Collections has a huge "Locklin Collection" and I may
well have contributed some ephemera from those early readings when the
collection was started a few years later. But any such things would be in
boxes and there's no way I have time right now to go through them.

I seem to remember another Buk reading on campus hosted by Leo Mailman and
perhaps Barker as well, but I can't picture the room in which it was held,
so maybe I'm just thinking of the one John Kay organized. That one was
shortly after John Kay published my book POOP AND OTHER POEMS, I believe,
and that book was published in 1972. SON OF POOP was published in 1973.

John Kay has written interestingly about that earlier reading. Leo Mailman
died a number of years ago.
Hope that helps..."


So, David, maybe John can still add a little more?

 

[Rekrab]

roni: thanks for asking Gerry Locklin about early Bukowski readings at CSULB, and for posting his recollections. I'm relieved that he confirms the 1969/70 classroom reading that I remember. Good to know that I'm not completely delusional. Also, good to know that the teacher of that class was none other than Gerry Locklin himself. It makes sense. When he says that Leo, John and I were not involved in that first, noontime reading, I think he means we had no part in organizing it, and not -- I'm guessing -- that we weren't there. I don't recall if Leo or John were there. One or both of those fine fellows very well may have brought me to that reading, both being more deeping involved in the small press scene than I at that time.

Locklin also confirms the 1972 "Poetry Week" reading that John Kay organized, and that is confirmed by the newspaper article I found.

Gerry's memory is more vague on a possible other reading organized by (perhaps) Leo Mailman and (maybe) even me. Could be. Maybe this is the 1971 morning reading I recall. Or, maybe it's the 1973 reading that happened after I left Long Beach, which is confirmed by the other article I found.

It's all starting to fall into place, more or less.

I realize this may not be a big deal to most Buk fans, even the hardcore ones. It means a lot to me because I was there, and it's part of my history.

I'll keep digging for facts. There are a few other people we can ask about this, who were there.

 

[Rekrab]

...and they are: D. H. Lloyd, and (possibly) Kirk Robertson. Also, Dana Hall, if I knew where to find him. I may think of a few more. Locklin could ask Charles Stetler. If you worked at it, you could come up with quite a list of possible witnesses to the CSULB readings.

 

[roni]

[...] I think he means we had no part in organizing it, and not -- I'm guessing -- that we weren't there.

Sure! He was only referring to the organizational-part, not who visited!

I realize this may not be a big deal to most Buk fans, even the hardcore ones.

It IS a big deal, I think, as it adds to the timeline and valid biographical information. And this is one thing, every Buk-fan is/should be interested in.
So let's see, if we can make all those dates fixed.

 

[Rekrab]

roni: good point. it does fill out the timeline and biography to nail down these early readings. Which reminds me, I should look more for that letter I received in the 80s that talks about a 1950s reading in L.A. That one would really be worth verifying.

 

[Bukfan]

I just got the PBA Galleries cataloque about the selling of Thomas Groff's Buk collection. And to add further to the confusion of the date of the San Francisco reading filmed by Hackford, Groff writes on page six in the cataloque: "In 1973, Linda accompanied Bukowski to the famed San Francisco City Lights poetry readingfilmed by Taylor Hackford".
So, back to square one (?). Groff says 1973. The poster says 1973. Other sources says 1972. I guess the Buk letter in Living On Luck that hank solo mentions, must be the final answer to the question of which year the reading took place. So 1972 must be the year. Still, it's puzzling that Groff says 1973...

 

[mjp]

Groff says 1973. The poster says 1973. Other sources says 1972. I guess the Bukowski letter in Living On Luck that hank solo mentions, must be the final answer to the question of which year the reading took place. So 1972 must be the year.

I think 1972 is definitely the year, based on a few things;

- Bukowski's previously mentioned 1972 letter (no mention of a reading in the September 1973 letters).

- Linda King kicked him out of her house at the beginning of August 1973 and they split up for good (if the reading was in September of 1973, I really doubt that he would have taken her with him).

- Hackford's film premiered in November of 1973 (as someone else pointed out, that doesn't seem like enough time to process and cut the thing together).

That would seem to be more than enough evidence for the 1972 date.

 

[Bukfan]

You're right! That's enough evidence. Funny though, how the year 1973 keeps popping up. One reason could be (besides the poster) partly due to the fact that Buk had a reading in dec. 1973 at the S.F. Museum of Arts. If he also had a reading again in 1973 at City Lights, that would add further to the mix-up of dates. Whatever the reasons, I'm glad that the puzzle has been solved...

 

[roni]

See also the Linda-King-excerpt of 'Loving and Hating' in BJUK2006 (p 72-78).

See also the fact that 'The Truth about the Death of Dylan Thomas' in 'South of No North' refers to that reading - and the time it came out would leave only little time to write the story and do the editing and printing of the book (esp. since we know, that BSP took its time to publish books).

So, really, the 1973-claim is through!
Despite that, it's no wonder that this mistake was traditioned so much. Someone writes it, the next one copies it - and thus adds to the 'reliability' of the date by creating an additional 'source'. None of the 1973-'sources' rely on prime information though. But many of the 1972-sources do (letters-dates, etc.)


Still we have to work out the dates at CSULB.

 

[mjp]

Buk had a reading in dec. 1973 at the S.F. Museum of Arts.

Where is this one documented?

 

[Bukfan]

It says so in the PBA cataloque on top of page 2. There's a lot of letters Buk wrote to poet Leo Connellan, and in the lot there's also an original Photograph of Buk. On the back of the photograph Buk has written : "Buk, Dec. 73, S.F. Museum of Arts, Reading Dirty Shit." There's also a long quote by William Stafford at the S.F. Museum of Art, Poetry Center: "He was drunk...Bukowski was up on stage with his bottle of "orange juice", looking like a wino from Fifth and Minna, vastly entertaining like someone who can fart at will, and he had these groupies...changing clothes and shuffeling chairs while Stafford read, and lusting after Bukowski's body hile he read...Bukowski...took time out from his own reading to mock mr. Stafford ...introduced himself by bellowing "let's get this dirty job done" (etc. etc. - the quote goes on).

Btw, mpj, you say that Buk was with Linda King untill August '73. He met her in '70, right? So they were together for about four years, I guess. I wonder because I seem to remember having read somewhere that they were together for five years, or was it Buk who said so in B.I.T.?

 

[roni]

... that Buk was with Linda King untill August '73. He met her in '70, right? So they were together for about four years, I guess. I wonder because I seem to remember having read somewhere that they were together for five years, ...

They were in and out of relationship over and over again. Sometimes quit for a longer time. You can see this in some of his letters in 'Living on Luck'. Also Linda says so in 'Loving and Hating' and even gives some exact dates (would have to look up for details).
And set the info is reliable, we have a member here, who met Buk in summer 1975 and was then fought out by Linda K.

 

[mjp]

And set the info is reliable, we have a member here, who met Buk in summer 1975 and was then fought out by Linda K.

Hmm, good point. I guess after she threw him out of the house they were still on again, off again. But he wrote some depressed letters in the months after King threw him out of the Silverlake house, so I get the feeling she stayed away from him for a while...

So if the reading was in '73 King could have been with him. But the letter - and to a lesser extent the Hackford documentary timeframe - still point to '72.