What kind of meathead, sets up a Bukowski site and then takes it on his own back to censor posts which boil down to direct quotes Bukowski made himself? This type of arrogant and aggressive meatheadedness was everything Bukowski was against not to mention how an artist feels about censorship in the first place.
Censorship
- Thread starter Bob Dylan
- Start date
uh oh...wait til Joan Baez hears about this. she's gonna be pissed!
mjp
Founding member
I'm sure you're talking about something very important, I'm also sure I have no idea what it is.
I just hope he calls you meathead again!that never gets old!
"Censorship is the tool of those who have the need to hide actualities from themselves and others. Their fear is only their inability to face what is real. Somewhere in their upbringing they were shielded against the total facts of our experience. They were only taught to look one way when many ways exist."
This is my beef man.
This is my beef man.
yeah, I understand, censorship is bad....
but what happened to fuel this crusade? are you still carrying a chip on you shoulder from the san pedro/buk and linda's house thing? because that's what it sounds like, and the song is getting old.
so, explain or shut it.
but what happened to fuel this crusade? are you still carrying a chip on you shoulder from the san pedro/buk and linda's house thing? because that's what it sounds like, and the song is getting old.
so, explain or shut it.
Oh? Number 1, I don't have a chip on my shoulder, even though I do not like being told where I can and cannot go in a free country by someone who acts like he owns the place. My beef is with some meathead who deletd my post which quoted Bukowski during the scene where he kicks Linda on the seat.
It was a humourous quote. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have recognised it. But as Vonnegut says, the author always takes a gamble on the reader being inteeligent enough to understand irony, wit and sarcasm etc. Probably askin too much these days.
It was a humourous quote. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have recognised it. But as Vonnegut says, the author always takes a gamble on the reader being inteeligent enough to understand irony, wit and sarcasm etc. Probably askin too much these days.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
No one said that you cannot go anywhere that is public in this FREE country. I believe that you were referring to wanting to go hang out in front of Linda Bukowski's private residence.
Also, I don't remember anyone on this forum telling people that they were not allowed to go there. I do know that many of us just refuse to tell people what the address is. We cannot stop anyone from stalking her, but no one says that we have to give you directions to her house.
I'm not sure why you are picking a fight with the owner of this forum, but from your posts it is clear that 1) you have no idea what he is about and 2) you are now out to cause problems and seem to have no plan to add anything to the discussion and only to try to subvert it.
Is this a fair assesment?
Bill
mjp
Founding member
Could have fooled me.
Finally, a shred of a detail! Man, it's like pulling teeth getting you to say what your problem is.
Here's a little secret for you: I don't delete any posts. I move them to a forum that isn't visible to users, so I know exactly which post you're talking about. Here it is in it's entirety:
she shouldnt have kept calling him an idiot and she shouldnt have been out 5 times all night for the previous week. Who does she think she is?
That's not a quote from Bukowski. It's just an asshole statement typed and posted by an asshole. Or someone deliberately trying to stir up shit, which falls under the general asshole umbrella.
jordan
lothario speedwagon
getting bent out of shape about being persecuted on a message board is like being scared a bee will sting you... it's all in your head.
bob dylan, i noticed you're not a supporting member. given that you don't pay for this site to exist, you really have no right to question anything anyone does regarding your posts.
okay, i'm ready... shore up your sense of entitlement and flame away.
bob dylan, i noticed you're not a supporting member. given that you don't pay for this site to exist, you really have no right to question anything anyone does regarding your posts.
okay, i'm ready... shore up your sense of entitlement and flame away.
I wasn't trying to stir up shit at all, if you post what I said in relation to the post I was replying to then people can see it in context. I in no way meant this in an offensive way or to try and stir up shit. Ok it's not a quote verbatim but it's what Bukowski was goin on about when he lost his temper and in relation to the post which I was replyin to it was meant as a humorous reflection on that scene. You can call me an asshole as much as you want it makes no difference. And with refernce to the other guys who are saying I wanted to stalk Linda and hang out in front of her house, that's not what I'm about either. I'm not like that. I travelled 5,000 miles from Ireland to visit Buk's grave, I drove around San Pedro and Hollywood, it would have been nice to see where he ended his days, I'm not an intruder of people's privacy, I know what is acceptable and what's not. But there you go.
One more point on your reply saying "I don't delete posts, I move them to where they are not visible by users". Which was my initial point. Censorship. Of course your answer is to call me an asshole repeatedly, which I guess in here makes you right. Congratulations
One more point on your reply saying "I don't delete posts, I move them to where they are not visible by users". Which was my initial point. Censorship. Of course your answer is to call me an asshole repeatedly, which I guess in here makes you right. Congratulations
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
This brings a point up.
Censorship...
Is it censorship to remove a book from a library becuase of religious convictions? probably yes, unless the library is owned by a church. It would seem to be a bit unfair to chastise them and refer to this as censorship if they did not carry "American Psycho" in a Christian Bookstore. Now, if it is Borders and they do not stock it, but can order it, is it censorship? Maybe they don't have the demand for it to stock it on thier shelves.
Is it censorship for the owner of a forum to remove posts that he finds offensive and inflamatory? Not really. He owns the forum. This is not a publicly owned site. It is owned by one person who spends countless hours to make sure that this does not turn into a nightmare of flame wars and snake oil salesmen. He removes the spam postings for Viagra and no one calls that censorship, yet, by calling this "censorship", you would think that the moderator (owner) should let all of the spam stand so that this becomes a site of 2% Bukowski content and 98% viagra and rolex ads. If the owner's desire to moderate the forum and keep us free from troublemakers and spammers are censorship, then I'm all for it.
Is it censorship for HarperCollins to refuse to publish OJ Simpson's confession book? (I'll leave that one open for the individual to decide.)
I just find it funny how censorship is thrown around. It is thrown about a bit like Bush throws around 9-11.
Mr Reporter: Mr. President, you cut taxes on the rich, yet cut funding for free breakfast for the poor. How do you respond?
Mr President: This is a different world than it was. Don't you remember 9-11? The terrorists.....
I have people accuse me of censorship because I will not publish them. This seems silly, but it is similar to those that send me a 100 page manuscript on how Jesus is Lord and then accuse me of censorship because I will not publish it.
Censorship is much bigger than removing a post. Censorship is not being able to buy Playboy in Utah. Censorship is bookstores refusing to stock a best seller and refusing to order it for customers that want it.
Throwing words around too often softens them up for when they are really meant to be used.
Thanks for listening and I apologize for the long post.
Bill
Censorship...
Is it censorship to remove a book from a library becuase of religious convictions? probably yes, unless the library is owned by a church. It would seem to be a bit unfair to chastise them and refer to this as censorship if they did not carry "American Psycho" in a Christian Bookstore. Now, if it is Borders and they do not stock it, but can order it, is it censorship? Maybe they don't have the demand for it to stock it on thier shelves.
Is it censorship for the owner of a forum to remove posts that he finds offensive and inflamatory? Not really. He owns the forum. This is not a publicly owned site. It is owned by one person who spends countless hours to make sure that this does not turn into a nightmare of flame wars and snake oil salesmen. He removes the spam postings for Viagra and no one calls that censorship, yet, by calling this "censorship", you would think that the moderator (owner) should let all of the spam stand so that this becomes a site of 2% Bukowski content and 98% viagra and rolex ads. If the owner's desire to moderate the forum and keep us free from troublemakers and spammers are censorship, then I'm all for it.
Is it censorship for HarperCollins to refuse to publish OJ Simpson's confession book? (I'll leave that one open for the individual to decide.)
I just find it funny how censorship is thrown around. It is thrown about a bit like Bush throws around 9-11.
Mr Reporter: Mr. President, you cut taxes on the rich, yet cut funding for free breakfast for the poor. How do you respond?
Mr President: This is a different world than it was. Don't you remember 9-11? The terrorists.....
I have people accuse me of censorship because I will not publish them. This seems silly, but it is similar to those that send me a 100 page manuscript on how Jesus is Lord and then accuse me of censorship because I will not publish it.
Censorship is much bigger than removing a post. Censorship is not being able to buy Playboy in Utah. Censorship is bookstores refusing to stock a best seller and refusing to order it for customers that want it.
Throwing words around too often softens them up for when they are really meant to be used.
Thanks for listening and I apologize for the long post.
Bill
Bill, I totally agree with you that a publisher's refusal to publish a certain text is not censorship, for many different reasons. However, if what I have said is considered as spam or another Viagra email in the inbox then it looks like I'm fighting a losing battle. I've obviously stumbled in on a clique where sycophancy seems to rule beyond reason. I'll say no more.
mjp
Founding member
The post doesn't need to be seen in context. Everyone knows what that thread is about, and everyone can see that the post was pointless and inflammatory.
You thought you could get away with lying about its contents by saying it was a "Bukowski quote," now that you can't get away with that, you switch to a claim that you had no intention of being offensive. What conclusion can I make from that? You're either stupid, or you're an asshole. I choose to believe the latter. Which is good news for you, because stupidity is usually terminal, but you can choose to stop being an asshole.
So choose to stop.
So what I said is no reflection on what Bukowski said in that scene?
He did'nt question Linda about staying out on different nights and he didn't say "who do you think you are"? Ok man, forget it. Why don't you show the post and my reply and let people judge for themselves if it was inflammatory.If you did find it offensive then from my part I didn't mean it to be. However, if you do find it offensive it's still not my reaction it's Bukowskis. Watch the DVD . As for you callin me an asshole again, fair enough.
He did'nt question Linda about staying out on different nights and he didn't say "who do you think you are"? Ok man, forget it. Why don't you show the post and my reply and let people judge for themselves if it was inflammatory.If you did find it offensive then from my part I didn't mean it to be. However, if you do find it offensive it's still not my reaction it's Bukowskis. Watch the DVD . As for you callin me an asshole again, fair enough.
Unfortunately you weren't smart enough to know what I was talking about
Listen kid: Please take a rest.
It took me almost a day to decide to take part of this thread or not. You reacted within 3 minutes. Don't shoot on everything what's moving. Take a deep breath, rest some, read Buk in bed or so. And hopefully you see things with different eyes the next time and join us on this great forum.
Good luck.
p.s. for me this case is closed.
It took me almost a day to decide to take part of this thread or not. You reacted within 3 minutes. Don't shoot on everything what's moving. Take a deep breath, rest some, read Buk in bed or so. And hopefully you see things with different eyes the next time and join us on this great forum.
Good luck.
p.s. for me this case is closed.
futureactor maybe? back for another kick at the immortality can?
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Same here (meaning me wanting some of mine to disappear, not yours!)
Bill
Bill
I tend to disagree here...
Censorship is not necessarily a "bigger" issue. It is an eminently individual action. It involves the suppression of that which is considered undesirable.
It is an intimate power relationship between censor and material. This is a clear example of censorship. Material was removed as it was considered undesirable.
Now, is censorship inherently unjustified? Perhaps, perhaps not.
I am opposed to censorship in general. Let the material be seen and evaluated on its own merits. If it is crap, it will be clearly percieved as such.
I also recognize this is a privately owned venue. As such, the material presented is at the discretion of the owner. We that post and participate must recognize this. Our participation is our implicit agreement to censorship.
So...Bob, get over it. Don't want to expose yourself to censorship here, then get the hell out.
But Bill, call a spade a spade...this IS censorship. One with which you agree, but one nevertheless.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Hi Cheap Gin,
Agreed. You are right. That being said, I am not opposed to some censorship. Certainly if I owned a forum and there was a person that made a point of insulting me in posts, I would remove the posts.
What I am opposed to, I guess, is government (or institutionalized)censorship, if that makes sense.
All best,
BIll