Censorship

[mjp]

Most people relate censorship with freedom of speech, which is a political or societal issue, not a discussion forum issue. If you do not censor, control, guide or otherwise maintain a public forum like this, it degrades quickly and becomes virtually worthless.

I don't remove insults aimed at me because they don't bother me, but I do remove mean-spirited insults aimed at other users, and that's one area where Mr. Dylan crossed the line.

There's no precise formula for making this work. If there was, we could write computer programs to moderate forums. ;) I'm sure I've made mistakes, and maybe pulled the trigger on some people (or called them assholes) when another moderator would have let them be. But all I can do is go with my gut feeling on this stuff.

 

[justine]

When you're a guest in someone's home you don't insult them or their other guests, or spit on their floor - although you may engage in spirited debate.

I would assume the same ettiquette would apply to a forum such as this.

Sometimes the "pomo" world is sadly lacking in good old-fashioned manners;)

mjp, your gut feeling IS all you can go on, and i think you're doing a fine job. if old Bob Dylan has a problem, then surely he can go set up his own buk site/forum so he can say whatever he wants - and spend the probable hundreds (maybe even thousands) of hours that it takes to construct and maintain such a site.

 

[chronic]

When you're a guest in someone's home you don't insult them or their other guests, or spit on their floor

Hmmm, I guess this must be why no one invites me into their homes anymore.

 

[bongobill]

^^^^lol

i don't get it
why anyone gets bent
about being censored or edited

happened to me a few times
no big deal
get over it

 

[cheap gin]

First I'd like to make it clear I understand the purpose of and accept the censorship that occurs here. I would not post otherwise.

But I am always made uncomfortable by any censorship. Mine or others. Censoring or being censored.

It is a power relationship. The censoring agent is enforcing its determination, its interests, its perceptions on work of others. The censored has no recourse, no power, no say. It is a unidirectional relationship.

Third parties such as audience are even greater victims. Where the censored may know what was censored. Perhaps even why. Third parties may not even realize the act has occured. They are totally dependent on the will of the censor.

This thread is an excellent example. Bob Dylan posted some material. mjp determined the material reached his threshold for censorship, the act was executed. mjp as the censoring agent is the sole determiner of value of material to the discussion underway. Bobby Dylan was aware of the censorship, what was censored, and perhaps why. He undertook this thread to inform the third parties such action was taken and to vent his displeasure (he also misrepresented his case, but that is a separate issue). Had our Dylan not informed us, we third parties would be oblivious to not only the material that was censored, but the very act itself. We are powerless.

Now, this thread has exposed Bobby as a crank, liar (or minimally- misrepresenter), and bad writer that has a poor sense of his own abilities. We can all see this quite clearly from his behavior and writing, including the repost of his original censored material. But, without the censorship we all (or at least those privy to the original topic, which I was not due to laziness), would clearly have seen this of our Bobby and made our own interpretations of his material and abilities. Perhaps even some would have concurred with his positions.

But we never had a chance to make our own interpretations and decisions. Those choices were made by another. Censorship.

Once again, I fully understand your position mjp and fully support your decision to censor. It is your venue, I am just a guest here. If I don't like it, I can "get the hell out" as I told Bobby. Since I like your venue, I'll stick around until you kick me out.

But I still don't like censorship in any form. Especially when I have been forced to be the censor myself.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[zoom man]

Hi Cheap Gin,
Agreed. You are right. That being said, I am not opposed to some censorship. Certainly if I owned a forum and there was a person that made a point of insulting me in posts, I would remove the posts.

What I am opposed to, I guess, is government (or institutionalized)censorship, if that makes sense.

Me too....
Like the mandatory 'this is in your best interest', let-me-be-your-(all)seeing eye dog....
Seat-belt laws
Motorcycle helmet obligations
Trans-Fats ban (see NYC)
etc.
This pisses me off to no end.
And now has some state passed a smoking ban in cars (yes, your own car)?!! (because you might be exposing passengers to your second-hand smoke).

 

[ROC]

No shit zoom man?
Motorcycle helmet, anti-smoking, seat-belt laws?
You're probably right.
If someone is brain-dead enough to actually want to disobey these laws, the world is no doubt better off without them.

But, as someone who has seen first hand the results of such stupidity, I would suggest you place your ego and selfishness behind your concern for others.

Someone else always has to clean up the mess.

And trans-fats ban? Hey there are enough fat, unhealthy americans now without adding to the pile, surely.

 

[slimedog]

I'd like to add though he has fine lyrics his singing and harmonica playing is atrocious!

 

[the only good poet]

a smoking ban in public places is coming into effect in england in 3 months (scotland, the guinea pig, already has it). a beer without a smoke?

 

[Ponder]

Visit the USA.

 

[Bukfan]

ha-ha. From the ashes into the fire. Not cigarette ashes though...:D
It's happening all over. Here they are about to ban smoking in restaurants, in about a month I believe. Only exceptions are places under forty square meters! I wonder why. One should think it was the other way around...

 

[roni]

I'd like to add though he has fine lyrics his singing and harmonica playing is atrocious!

O, yes! and I couldn't live without his 'candle in the wind' - or was it 'blowing'?

It's happening all over. Here they are about to ban smoking in restaurants, in about a month I believe.

Yeah, these suckers are about to prohibit it in German bars too. Would be a reason for me to START smoking if they do. I guess I will.


oh, p.s.: I just realized - this was my 100th post! Open the Champagne!

 

[Ponder]

I just realized - this was my 100th post! Open the Champagne!

There is alwaysa reason to drink huh ;)

Ok, congrats with your 100th post. I'm gonna buy a a box of expensive Spanish wine now, (tempranilllo, spelling?).

Your fault, Roni :)

 

[Ninjerk]

Visit the USA.

Florida, New York, and California banned smoking in bars before I was old enough to smoke in bars, or want to.

Once again, I fully understand your position mjp and fully support your decision to censor. It is your venue, I am just a guest here. If I don't like it, I can "get the hell out" as I told Bobby. Since I like your venue, I'll stick around until you kick me out.

Anyone remember the Forum Rules/TOS? You're not being guaranteed anything.

 

[Ponder]

Florida, New York, and California banned smoking in bars before I was old enough to smoke in bars, or want

I guess I was too vague.

What I mean is that I visit the USA every year.

So, nothing new. In Holland the're getting paranoid as well..