Crack heads crack heads and Christmas

[ROC]

Idiots?
I don't know if that's too far off the mark.
I work to support my addictions and, while this doesn't make a better human being per se, I'll be fucked if I'm gonna pretend that we are all perfect and unique little snow flakes.
I support the legalization of drugs but having a habit does not excuse some low life breaking into your car or house and stealing your shit.
You wanna legalize that too Brother S?
If we are all one - addicts, jockeys, CEOs, winemakers, bricklayers and ME - why the hell doesn't your defense work both ways?
We can't judge an addict harshly but you can judge Rekrab harshly - call him an idiot, make wild assumptions and generally come off holier than thou?

Hipocrisy....
those who preach love....
their finest art...
all that.
and more.

Yes, your shit stinks Brother S (BS) - I can smell it from here.

 

[the only good poet]

well put, buk on a bike - but idiots isn't off the mark at all. i live above shops on a council estate, and we hear it all - it can be a real horror show out there.

 

[grayxray]

I think rekrab just meant that it was idiocy to steal worthless tapes, whether it was done by addicts or mormons or whoever.
I too am against the war on drugs (= war on people) because it makes no sense to persecute sick people. They should be treated for their addiction or freely given the drug they are addicted to. Whatever option they choose.
Just my two cents...

I believe that everything should be free in our society and I don't believe in work. If you want to work that is OK, but tax at 90% like Sweden. Free housing, Free food, Free medical and a guarantee income for life for everybody whether they are citizens or not. To me this is what the meaning of a free society means to me. Also free legal, very few if any police, no army, free college with no requirement of testing, all the free drugs you want, or alternatively counseling to kick your addiction and all the free time you want.

This would be a great society -- a great society!

 

[chronic]

That might work in a world full of tiny communities full of hunters and gatherers, but you would still have to work if you wanted to eat.

And there would still be greed.

 

[grayxray]

I disagree, just tax business -- to fund the programs -- that works!

 

[mjp]

This peace and love toward crackheads is all well and good, but legalizing crack it isn't going to keep a crackhead from robbing you. They aren't robbing you because it's expensive. It's not. It isn't hard to get either. Anyone who wants crack can get crack for a few dollars. Legalizing that drug in particular wouldn't prevent one crime.

I think all drugs, substances and plant life should be legal. Doing that would eliminate huge amounts of crime, corruption and ridiculously unnecessary incarceration. But to consider all drugs equal in their effect is unrealistic. Legalization would have different effects for every currently illegal drug.

Crack is not pot. Someone addicted crack is 958,682 times more likely to stick a crudely sharpened screwdriver in your ribs to get whatever is in your wallet than is someone who loves to smoke pot. That's just the way it is. I didn't make that statistic feasible (though completely made up), crack's insidious qualities did.

 

[bospress.net]

Folks,
Grayxray seems to be playing devil's advocate to annoy you... This is what he does. Next he will apologize and offer to leave the forum for the good of the forum. This then turns the topic away from him and back to me being mean..... He has played this game several times on this very forum...

Also, we have members that live in Sweden. Please Henry, kill this myth that Sweden has 90% tax. Additionally, from what I know, Sweden has a very low crime rate and even lower murder rate. This in a country that is very liberal by US standards. But then, this is just my opinion...

Bill

 

[the only good poet]

the main reason i didn't become a hard drug user was the sort of people you have to associate with to get the f-in stuff! and if you knew my off-license man...

 

[grayxray]

Folks...

You know Bill, you are really starting to irritate me. I say what I feel. Say what you want, I really don't care. You seem to feel I have a hidden agenda or something - your hate is showing through, peace be with you. And for the record I am Swedish, as was my mother and grandmother.

Just what is your problem Bill? What is your agenda? Are you going to ask jr to throw me off the board again???

And PS you are right about the tax rate - closer to 68%, but it depends on how much you make -- lots of free stuff in Sweden; you ought to visit the place; but some muslims are creating a big problem there now -- lots of rape and murder of Swedish girls.

Have a nice night!

 

[bospress.net]

Grayxray,

I have no hate. Not even for you. You just annoy me with your passive aggressive bullshit. I do have a problem with you. You are right about thaqt. You stir up trouble and that is your art.

Who is jr? Did he throw you off of the forum before? If he did it was his decision, not mine. I would not have let you back. mjp runs the forum, not me. I have no agenda. I just don't like people that clearly have nothing better to do than to pick fights and then sit back and enjoy the trouble that they have caused.

I can see what you are about. Reading every post of yours makes a very clear picture of what you like to do on forums.

So, the Swedesh tax rate is 68% and they have problems witrh Muslims running around raping young girls there. Interesting. I would not believe it unless my friend from Sweden verifies this. This sounds like propaganda to me. I have never heard about the Muslim rape problem.

If you want to take this off the forum, for the good of the forum, you can e-mail me. My email address and name is no secret. I do not hide behind forum names. Frankly, I think that would bore you as you want a public forum.

Anyone intersted can look over my posts to see what MY agenda is and then look over Grayxray's posts to see what his is. I'm sure that he knows who Bukowski is, but otherwise, you would not know it by reading a majority of his posts that never seem to have anything to do with Bukowski and always try to steer the topic off course.

But then this is my opinion....

Have a nice night!

Bill
Bottle of Smoke Press

 

[chronic]

I disagree, just tax business -- to fund the programs -- that works!

But in the world you describe there wouldn't be any businesses to tax. What possible incentive would there be to starting a business if everything is handed to you on a platter? What's more, there wouldn't be any money, since the stuff would be useless.

Of course, somebody would have to be handing that platter to you, and putting the stuff on it, and somebody would have to be making the stuff to put on the platter in the first place, and on and on... I suppose you could call that work.

Even in a barter system you would have to be producing something (aka working) that people would be willing to trade for. Hmmm, a bit of a pickle, dontcha think?

If you mean that people shouldn't be forced to work many hours at jobs they hate in order to turn over a large portion of their hard-earned money to some faceless corporation, only to be dropped when life goes bad, then yeah, I agree with that.

 

[grayxray]

Yea, you are right -- its just that I would like to enjoy total freedom; something only a few really experience. Just a dream, just a dream.

but I do understand that a barter system is up and runing in Oakland and working just great!!

Your are right about me not focusing on Buk -- something I need to correct --

 

[Short Bus]

Nooooooooooo

>no prohibition = no inhumane prices =no need to steal & rob in order to get the funds to support the addiction.>

This is nonsense. Its the drugs use. They own it. What is a fair price to someone with no money cause they blow it on crack? If the price is a dollar a stinking dollar but all they have is 50 cents then Tom waits is still sailing out my window for that 50 cents and if was 50 cents they would crack threw my window again for the missing quarter.

>ou call the desperate addicts idiots and this implies you think you're better than them. but better how? better heart? better sensitivity to the plights of others? better compassion? better sympathy? better empathy? or just better at acting like your shit doesn't stink?
I'm better cause I'm not a freaking addict who steals from other people becausae to fuel a habit that is slow suicide. Yeah that makes me better smarter and perhaps more empathetic to the societal whole.

>better hope you don't get hooked on Percodan for a back injury and then run out of medical insurance and money...<
Why not? People who are better find ways other than stealing. This isn't about drug use BS it's about theft becuase of drug use. I have many (perhaps too many) friends who are addicted to something but they don't steal lie these scum bags did.....on Xmas night


>you don't see yourself in the crackheads, do you? you still think they are someone else over there. but it's you. they are but reflections of the shadows in your conscience. until you see them as beautiful, perfect, and holy just the way they are---"flaws" and all---then you will never ever ever see or know yourself as beautiful, perfect and holy just the way you are.

>


I didn't call the jerks who stole my CD idiots but I will here and now. Freaking theives and idots. I work hard for my money and I don;t have a lot.

I can see them as beautiful with flaws all I want but when I go to sleep thinking good thoughts about them they busted my freaking window.
When do they have the responsibility to have these we are the world good thoughts.

>you perceive a separation between "them" and "you" but it's only because you don't know the wholeness of yourself. there are things about yourself that you don't wanna face or accept---and these are the same things you hate to see in others.

I accept people get high get addicted and then steal and rob and get more high. I also accept that choice like universal love is availble to everyone even the flawed the disheartened and the lonely.
I can love them (and my addicted relatives all I want) but until they decide that steailing a 3cd version of Tom Waits on Xmas night isn't the best careeer move I'm calling them Idiots with a capital I.

The Dalai Lama sees the Chinese government as you suggest above but he is also has a very clear understanding knowing they would be murderous swine given the chance.

From my perspective we show love and respect and empathy when we talk honestly. And all thieves are jerks. I don't care why they are thieves. I don;t steal your crap so keep your hands off mine you poor peniless misunderstood pipe sucking rotten childhood traumatized shit.


And for the record if this thief had a shitty life before its definately in the toilet now. The CD isn't that good.

 

[Brother Schenker]

....Anyone intersted can look over my posts to see what MY agenda is and then look over Grayxray's posts to see what his is. I'm sure that he knows who Bukowski is, but otherwise, you would not know it by reading a majority of his posts that never seem to have anything to do with Bukowski and always try to steer the topic off course....

Bill Bottle
of Smoke Press

Is this forum supposed to be dry & scholarly--just the facts--? Or is it more like a pub? It doesn't sell anything so it can't be considered a store...Maybe it's more like a library, eh? But still, can there not be levity?

You're acting like a tattle-tale, Bill Bottle. You're acting territorial as well. To read every single post by Grayxray to suss out 'if he belongs here' strikes me as obsessional and bitchy.

Some of us fans of Bukowski's work like hanging out in the company of Bukowski fans. We're not all here to talk shop about Bukowski's work as a commodity. Not even necessarily always here to talk about Buk or his work.

I'm not defending Grayxray. For all I know he's a troll. I can't be bothered to scroll through his 72 posts to find out. But you, Bill Bottle, are coming off like a teacher's pet and a control freak, too. A man who does not suffer fools gladly. A man with very little sense of humour. A man who probably spends more time at bukowski.net than anyone else---including mjp.

Weren't you the chap who wanted to start an ebay police force for bukowski.net last year? Lovely...

I don't like to see people throwing their weight around and bullying or near-bullying harmless clowns who dare to express a contrary opinion or even enjoy playing the Devil's advocate.

Don't step on the clowns, Bill. You step on them, you step on me, and then my stinky shit squirts out and fogs up the air with a funk that could fuck an elephant.

---Alexander T. Newport (hiding behind the fake, phony, fraudulent name of Brother Schenker).

 

[cheap gin]

you don't see yourself in the crackheads, do you? you still think they are someone else over there. but it's you. they are but reflections of the shadows in your conscience. until you see them as beautiful, perfect, and holy just the way they are---"flaws" and all---then you will never ever ever see or know yourself as beautiful, perfect and holy just the way you are.

I think we all see the crackhead in ourselves, maybe that's why we're here. And we'll always see the "faults" in the Other, even when they are no more then shadowy reflections of ourselves, maybe especially so.

Beautiful is subjective and ephemeral, and I am emminently unqualified to expound on the "holy," but I have contention with your assertions of "perfection." Life is a series of transitory moments tied together by a biased commentary, so the application of "perfection" is nonsensical. Unless, that is, you intend it as a commentary on a precise moment in time and space, in which case it becomes emminently applicable, and entirely meaningless.

You are what you are, the crackheads what they are, I, well, what I am. Whether that means you or I consider that "beautiful, perfect, and holy," well, that's just crap-speak. We are what we are. If we like it, great, if not, too damn bad.

But others can still think we are idiots. Hell, we even may agree.

 

[Brother Schenker]

...I don't care why they are thieves....

I'm for the legalization of all drugs and anything that can be used like a drug.
I think they should be free and people should be free to use them until they fuck up or die. If they fuck up, then they get sent away to the desert or the tundra where they can continue to use their drug amongst nothing but a bunch of fuck-ups. They can kill and rape and pimp and eat each other. Out of sight, out of mind.

But that ain't gonna happen for hundreds of years.

In the meantime, in our lifetimes, drugs will remain illegal and therefore costly.
You talk about crack being inexpensive but you're only talking about it on a per hit basis. Crack/heroin/speed addicts need many hits per day & night. It adds up fast. If it was free, the dumbest amongst us would gorge themselves and die. And good riddance. Survival of the fittest and all that.

The drugs aren't dumb and most of the people using them aren't dumb. It's the laws prohibiting their existence that's downright dumb. It keeps the prices high because it makes it a risky business.

And what is the intention of prohibition? To eradicate the drugs. To eliminate their existence. And in over 80 years it has not worked a single day. More drugs today than ever before; more people using them, too.

As to your not caring why a thief is a thief:
So be it.
The why isn't important.
It's the not caring that is.

 

[bospress.net]

Is this forum...

CAll me what you would like, that is fine. I'm an asshole. Otherwise, you know nothing about me.

Not that grayxray is doing this, but are we supposed to entertain the rantings of every drunk that stumbles here and wants to talk about US politics? If this is a pub then everything is fair game.

So you don't like me either. I guess I'll have to survive somehow....

Bill


p.s. as far as the ebay police, yep that was me. I guess that you would rather people bus obvious forgeries? Is helping them out by letting them know that htese are forgeries being too bitchy? If you don't like the postings then don't read them. There are many posts that are not to my taste. I just ignore them.

 

[Brother Schenker]

Life is a series of transitory moments tied together by a biased commentary, so the application of "perfection" is nonsensical.

Ah, if only you were correct, then that sentence would not only be pretty but meaningful. As it is, it's only pretty. Good try, though, Grasshoppa.

Your mortal life may appear to be a series of fleeting moments, but actually, you as a conscious entity are life itself and as such, you are consciousness, and consciousness is ON and has always been ON and will always be ON no matter how many mortal lives you live & die through. The moments you speak of are but illusions made possible by this Time & Space paradigm/Idea that we are currently experiencing as human beings. Human beings and their moments are but slides across a projector---they do not alter, add or subtract anything to or from consciousness. We are not really human beings. We are consciousness. We were ON before we became babies in this particular dreamgame. And we will be ON when and after we die our mortal death.

I thank you.

---Alexander T. Newport

 

[hoochmonkey9]

alright, if this is a pub, where the hell is the bartender, because I am DRY.

-Stephen Hines (we're doing this now, right?).

and I'm pretty sure the rest of the patrons in this pub could use a drink, cuz they are gettin' cranky...

 

[cheap gin]

Actually, a drink sounds pretty good right about now...

Ah, if only you were correct...

Thanks for the compliment on my writing, Bro, I've spent much of the last few years writing meaningful, but asthetically unappealing crap, so I've been jonesing for a change. Glad to see you think I hit the mark.

Since I'm neither drunk nor hungover, for a change, I think I'll rise to your bait...

I like your pretty, but apparently unverifiable, dissertation on consciousness. It's cool and rather metaphysical, but presents a conundrum for me: to wit, if our mortal lives (or moments therein) are mere illusions and only "slides across a projector" that "do not alter, add or subtract anything" then why do you give a shit? I mean about anything? Why do you care about the legality of drugs? Why give a shit if someone refers to crackheads as idiots (or "Idiots" with the capital I)? Why give a shit if my "pretty" sentence is "meaningful?"

None of this crap means anything to you since you should have little more emotion toward it than you have viewing a slideshow. And while slideshows may elicit slight emotional responses in viewers, they do so in a rather distant and detached manner. So why do you give a shit what I, or anyone else (including yourself?) says or does.

Let crackheads smoke crack, let others call them idiots and fail to empathize, let me drink and wax meaningfullessly poetic, and just go back to watching your own personal slideshow. I'll watch mine, and grimace in the process.

 

[mjp]

I don't like to see people throwing their weight around and bullying or near-bullying harmless clowns who dare to express a contrary opinion or even enjoy playing the Devil's advocate.

Right. Let those "harmless clowns" go unchecked and the forum becomes worthless. That's a fact, across the board, everywhere, now and for all time. I can show you countless examples going back to usenet.

Maybe you or others think it's cute and funny, but it won't take over or kill this forum, I won't let it. If that means pulling the plug on people who I think are destructive, and others think are harmless, tough shit.

You step on them, you step on me, and then my stinky shit squirts out and fogs up the air with a funk that could fuck an elephant.

Not here it won't.


Open message to anyone who wants to fuck things up around here: Your career will be short. There is plenty of disparate opinion here, plenty of non-Bukowski topics and the freedom to say what you want to say.

But this is NOT a pub, it is a forum, and they live or die by different rules. Yes, there have to be rules. Waaaaah, rules. Too bad.