To be fair, I called it a character flaw, but I'd revise that statement. It wasn't what I meant, what I was trying to get at is that alcoholism still has negative implications today, whether it is a psychological disease or whatever.
Do we need to admire Charles Bukowski to honor his poetry?
- Thread starter cirerita
- Start date
Yeah... For whatever reason, the topic has grown legs and gone for a bit of a run...
... If you love something set it free... ha ha...
... I hope it comes back soon....
Alcoholism
...how about recognizing it as a physical disease, most likely inherited in one's genes, though perhaps exacerbated by psychological trauma.
...how about recognizing it as a physical disease, most likely inherited in one's genes, though perhaps exacerbated by psychological trauma.
His so-called Nazi sympathies would also have to be cast in the light of his being proud of his German roots. Nazism was not the widely known murder-machine in its early years that it later became. As for anti-semitism... well that was just par for the course in 'Christian' Europe... so no big deal at the time on that one.
As for the beer... of course he would've gone for the beer... do you have ANY idea of what a good German beer tastes like????
I agree with Sircha...I think he went to Nazi meetings out of temporarily misguided pride in his homeland, an un-ending urge to act against anything labeled off-limits by society and because he could.
As for Pound, the Irish wished the Nazis well in WWII because they loved anyone who inflicted pain on the British...perhaps Pound hated certain aspects of what the Allies stood for so much, he took things (way) too far?
As for Pound, the Irish wished the Nazis well in WWII because they loved anyone who inflicted pain on the British...perhaps Pound hated certain aspects of what the Allies stood for so much, he took things (way) too far?
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
I'd bet dollars to donuts they served Budwieser or Schlitz. At his age and at that time a beer was a buzz.
He was not anti-semitic or Jewaphobic, at least from I have read.
He was not anti-semitic or Jewaphobic, at least from I have read.
OK. I threw the beer line for a bit of a laugh.
Dunno whether he was anti-semitic or not Haven't heard that he had any particular anti-semitic feelings and I'm sure if he had it would've been done to death in the media by now.
But anyway, anti-semitism also has to be considered within the context of the times. Everybody hated Jews back then. The Kaiser, upon his abdication, blamed the Jew.. (although at the end of his life he came to bitterly despise Hitler and Nazism and vowed he would never step foot in Germany again nor would he will that he was buried there, reputedly saying near the end of his life, "For the first time, I am ashamed to be a German").
Dunno whether he was anti-semitic or not Haven't heard that he had any particular anti-semitic feelings and I'm sure if he had it would've been done to death in the media by now.
But anyway, anti-semitism also has to be considered within the context of the times. Everybody hated Jews back then. The Kaiser, upon his abdication, blamed the Jew.. (although at the end of his life he came to bitterly despise Hitler and Nazism and vowed he would never step foot in Germany again nor would he will that he was buried there, reputedly saying near the end of his life, "For the first time, I am ashamed to be a German").
Father Luke
Founding member
Yep. Even taking it to the extreme by sending condolences to the German Ambassador in Dublin after hearing of Hitler's death... (to Eamon De Valera's eternal disgrace).
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Thorkild Hansen was Danish, not Swedish! Another Wikipedia goof. Not that it matters. I'm just nit-picking...:)
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the sentiment of most....
if only more people would realize that addiction is not voluntary thing, a lack of restaint,.. a crime, or a...... skip it.
i dig
mjp
Founding member
I have been watching the six hour PBS documentary Jews in America, and it's really astonishing how common, widespread and generally accepted anti-Semitism was in America (and elsewhere, obviously) in the 1920's and 30's.
Henry Ford published a newspaper for almost two years that's sole purpose was to denounce and denigrate Jews. He only stopped publishing it when it looked like he was about to lose a million dollar lawsuit.
And that's just the tip of the Greenberg, er, iceberg.
I am not an apologist for these people, but you have to consider context when you look at these things 70 or 80 years after the fact. It's the only way to understand how they happened, and why, for instance, so many otherwise sane and reasonable German people participated in genocide.
Or why so many people in America want to build fences around the country.
We all have prejudices, and none of them are logical or attractive.
Henry Ford published a newspaper for almost two years that's sole purpose was to denounce and denigrate Jews. He only stopped publishing it when it looked like he was about to lose a million dollar lawsuit.
And that's just the tip of the Greenberg, er, iceberg.
I am not an apologist for these people, but you have to consider context when you look at these things 70 or 80 years after the fact. It's the only way to understand how they happened, and why, for instance, so many otherwise sane and reasonable German people participated in genocide.
Or why so many people in America want to build fences around the country.
We all have prejudices, and none of them are logical or attractive.
Sorry... I meant....
Please don't think I'm talking about Alcoholism when I talk of 'Restraint'.
What I meant was.... when he was drunk he lost some self restraint..... i.e...
breaking Linda King's nose, the kicking incident, his upsetting of many friends over the years, which is well recorded.
Actually, whilst Bukowski obviously drank a lot, and abused alcohol, I don't believe he had an addiction either Physically or psycologically. Buk had a drinking routine that aided his artistic skills, a positive side, to the one mentioned earlier.
:D:D:):):D:D:):)
Please don't think I'm talking about Alcoholism when I talk of 'Restraint'.
What I meant was.... when he was drunk he lost some self restraint..... i.e...
breaking Linda King's nose, the kicking incident, his upsetting of many friends over the years, which is well recorded.
Actually, whilst Bukowski obviously drank a lot, and abused alcohol, I don't believe he had an addiction either Physically or psycologically. Buk had a drinking routine that aided his artistic skills, a positive side, to the one mentioned earlier.
:D:D:):):D:D:):)
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Mullinax answered this post of mine. Now his answer is gone! How come? What happend? - Just curious...
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M
MULLINAX
I recanted.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
You have to admire Mullinax for being man enough to recant his comment.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Ah-ok! No need though, I liked it. It was funny!