Don't Try!!

Ryan Chinaski

Ryan Chinaski

Apologies if this has been posted.I found nothing using the search feature.

On Buk's final resting place it reads "Don't try"
What do you think he meant by this.A lot of people could draw different opinions on what this means.I'm curious to know what the users on this site think about it.

Any thoughts??

Ryan...
 
number6horse

number6horse

okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
I recently read this on page 110 of "Charles Bukowski Selected Letters, Volume 1:1958-1965"

(The topic was interacting with other writers and literary types.)

"Somebody at one of these places, I think Mahak's, asked me: 'What do you do? How do you write, create?' You don't, I told them. You don't try. That's very important: not to try, either for Cadillacs, creation, or immortality. You wait, and if nothing happens, you wait some more."
 
D

daveok

don't be sorry, good thread, good links, good to know. never saw the grave before now. don't try is right, do.
 
M

MULLINAX

"Don't try"? It's a good thing the human race didn't take this advice, otherwise we'd still be living in caves and gnawing bones. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Of course "humanity never had it from the beginning". Actually, "Don't try" means: "Don't pretend to be what you are not". I think. Although this epitaph could also be a loser's way of making excuses. I'm glad Bukowski didn't take his own advice. He wasn't born a writer. Nobody is. He deliberately TRIED to become a writer. He made it. My advice to everyone is this: Please do try, or else you're just going to remain in your basement apartments forever. I'm rambling. Must be the alcohol. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
 
MilDot

MilDot

Agreed.

Until this thread, and not knowing much, I always took the "Don't Try" -being under the boxer, to mean "Don't try me". More about Buk being a bar fighter.

I read a post on one of the links... an assumption that Hank was not really that good of a fighter. I believe, being a fighter myself, that he was. Don't mistake losing a fight, that was started for the fun of it, for the inability to win. It is just that he didn't feel it was worth really hurting someone or causing them to lose face. Not to mention the fact that he would fight the bartenders or people who bought him drinks...when he was bumming drinks. Kick a bartenders ass and see how welcome you are in his establishment the next night. Lose a fight and someone will buy you a few... Most noncombatants probably didn't get this from Buk's writing, but its pretty clear to me. I think Buk was a badass.
 
R

rikrude

I've always thought of it in terms of people using "I'll try" as an excuse to fail. "OK, I'll try to do it." Don't TRY to do it, just DO it. Like Yoda says:

YODA: Use The Force. Now....feel it. Concentrate.
LUKE: Oh, no. We'll never get it out now.
YODA: So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing
that I say?
LUKE: Master, moving stones around is one thing. This is totally different.
YODA: No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you
have learned.
LUKE: All right, I'll give it a try.
YODA: No! Try not. Do. Or, do not. There is no try.
LUKE: I can't. It's too big.
YODA: Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hm? Mmmm.
And well you should not. For my ally is the Force. And a powerful
ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds
us and binds us. Luminous beings are we....not this crude matter. You
must feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the tree...
the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship!
LUKE: You want the impossible. I don't...I don't believe it.
YODA: That is why you fail.
 
S

Sircha

Ryan Chinaski said:
On Buk's final resting place it reads "Don't try"
What do you think he meant by this.A lot of people could draw different opinions on what this means.I'm curious to know what the users on this site think about it.
Click to expand...
Often wondered about that myself. I would like to think it means something like "don't start out to try... start out to succeed"
 
reasonknot

reasonknot

Founding member
The pholosophy of Lao Tsu is simple:Accept what is in front of you without wanting the situation to be other than it is...in other words:simply be.

There is quite a bit of evidence in later publications that buk read through
Tao Te Ching and decided to adopt the "don't try" attitude from this.

Then again,their is the last poem from "what matters most.."
saying do it do it
and the second to last from "Sifting through the madness for the word the line the way"
saying do it do it

most of his books are at the Barnes and Noble.start reading .support ECCO>
 
S

Sircha

Don't Try....

Having thought about it awhile more...

I wonder if there is another meaning to this...

(Compassionate advice if you will)

That being : If you haven't got it in you to get it,
don't hurt yourself by trying to find it. In that the price
(if you fail or even if you succeed) will be higher than you can afford.

I say this after listening to Bono reciting "Roll the dice"

If you're gonna try
go all the way
otherwise don't even start

If you're gonna try
go all the way
this could mean losing
girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs
and maybe your mind

If you're gonna try
go all the way
it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days
it could mean freezing on a park bench
it could mean jail
it could mean derision
it could mean mockery, isolation... & etc.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
Well there's another example (albeit in the negative) right there.
Bono; trying and failing on that DVD.
It's either there or it isn't and when it isn't and you are trying (usually too hard) it's just ugly.
 
N

nomadi00

I've always thought it meant ... well, just what it says. I wouldn't call it slacking, just letting things roll. I'd liken it to the expression "Don't try too hard," if that is one. I think it was said best in (I think) the interview posted in a link above, where the interviewer said "Be natural". Also - and maybe it's superstition, but I've always had the outlook, when you don't try, things come your way to balance everything out, eventually.
 
T

theromper

oh boy, i love that sentiment. don't try, DO.

that advice applies very well to poetry and writing in general. i've found often when students are writing an essay they turn on some "essay voice" and that's where a lot of mistakes come from. but the best writers aren't TRYING to write, they're just writing in their own natural voice.
 
B

blitz

I way I see it is that "Don't try" means that when you write (or do anything) you shouldn't have your head filled with notions of how things should be. Too many writers have failed because they tried to write like Shakespeare, Ginsberg, Woodsworth (god, the Woodsworth-fakers are the worst) etc. If you write the way that is right for you, then you don't try, you do it. If you write how someone else is telling you to or by following an imaginary set of rules you make up when reading your favourite poem/book - then you try. You try too hard. And it'll show.

Have no idea if this makes sense to anyone else.
 
S

Sircha

Yep, it makes sense. It may be a small epitaph - only two small words yet so many nuances of possible meaning. Reminds me of that saying that goes something like "the fewer the words, the greater the depth".
 
B

blitz

Wow, how did I manage to misspell Wordsworth while looking at his name on a different site? Such an embarrassing typo :eek:

Anyway, I couldn't agree with you more. We had "Daffodils" in class once and I was ready to kill myself.
 
MilDot

MilDot

Well, I'm sure BUK knew exactly what he meant. I just wonder if it was so obvious to him that he never felt the need to elaborate much or if he purposely set us, his readers, up to ponder the nuances later on. If the latter was the case I am positive he took great pleasure in the thought of people he did not know and did not like doing exactly what we are doing. I feel like a dumb ass. Even more so because I have no intention of stopping.
Oh well...

Now where did I put my drink?
 
Father Luke

Father Luke

Founding member
Don't try

"Somebody at one of these places asked me: "What do you do? How do you
write, create?" You don't, I told them. You don't try. That's very important: not
to try, either for Cadillacs, creation or immortality. You wait, and if nothing
happens, you wait some more. It's like a bug high on the wall. You wait for it to
come to you. When it gets close enough you reach out, slap out and kill it. Or if
you like it's looks, you make a pet out of it." - Charles Bukowski

click - H E R E
 
P

Paul186

I think this world is full of "cliches of the obvious." One is : "Never give up." I like "Don't try." It negates the overrated previous bull. Hey! How many fools never gave up on women and kicked that along for years? Trying too hard gave me headaches. In many cases, when I "gave up," it was all over my face and things, people and opps gravitated to me. It's the way I look at it.

Simply put, the "Buk," pulled off an existence of a life as a part-time Zen Master.

Of course, I wouldn't try...to do that.....hahahahaha
 
M

MULLINAX

Buk was no Buddhist. Sure, as a dying leukemia victim he gave that mantra stuff a try. "What the hell!" he would say, but only THE WIDOW and the 'snatch a pebble from my hand" crowd put this Buddhism stuff forward. I live in a country that's 99% Buddhist and they burp and fart as much as anybody else does.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
So now you are calling Linda L.B. 'THE WIDOW' as well?
Why?
Do you bear her some personal animosity or are you just using Montforts words?

And what does "put this Buddhism stuff forward" mean?
A large proportion of the human population subscribe to some form of organised religion - are you dismissing all Buddhists with your pithy yet meaningless comment or are you trying to be funny but missing the mark (again)?
And "they burp and fart as much as anybody else does" is exactly the fucking point.

Sigh.

I don't know what's more annoying - your ignorance or the confidence with which it's displayed.

"Simply put, the "Buk," pulled off an existence of a life as a part-time Zen Master".
Reminds me of the Alexander Nehamas book 'Life as Literature'... but twisted... maybe 'Literature as Life' in Bukowskis case.
"The apparent world and the world invented by a lie - this is the antithesis. The 'true world' and the 'apparent world' - that means the mendaciously invented world and reality" - Nietzsche.

No?
 
M

MULLINAX

ROC said:
So now you are calling Linda L.B. 'THE WIDOW' as well?
Why?
Do you bear her some personal animosity or are you just using Montforts words?
Click to expand...
Nope. Don't know her and I'm definitely using Montfort's words because I'm castigating some people's religious beliefs as WORTHLESS TRENDYISM. California "Buddhism" is zany nonsense that fits in well with all the "new-age" bunk that bored people turn to when they're, well, bored. THE WIDOW was initially a MEHER BABA supporter, you know, the "I shall not speak or touch money" dude. He was a Hindu. She got tired of that and eventually her "spiritual journey" led her to orchestrate the SHAMBOLIC funeral that has been well documented. A farce and a travesty that Buk could do nothing about. Reminds me of Jane's "half-way funeral". Many Californians grasp at all sorts of esoteric stuff, be it EST, ROLFING, TM, Hare Krishna or whatever. It's all superficial nonsense. THE WIDOW latched on to all sorts of crystal ball mysticism because she was BORED, not committed. She was into whatever the flavour of the month was. When Christianity becomes cool in Marin County she'll turn to that as well. On a related note, I went to a castle town last week that was captured from a shit-kicking Buddhist sect. It took an army to subdue those tough motherfuckers. The battle resulted in the extermination of 20,000 Buddhist warrior monks and they managed to send 10,000 of their enemies to Nirvana. They gave as good as they got. Not a pacifist among them. Totally contrary to what Westerners believe about 'Eastern Religions'. What's my point? Westerners idealize Buddhists as some sort of ultra spiritual "with-it" dudes who have figured out what it's all about. They haven't. Not even close. It makes me laugh to see well-fed idealistic Westerners ramble on about the superiority of "Eastern non-materialism'. Nobody here gives a fuck about that crap. Neither do the Chinese or the Koreans. Bukowski was TOTALLY against organized religion and so am I. He was not a Buddhist! I apologize for bringing Bukowski's beliefs into this argument. (Oh Shit! I forgot my mantra!)
 
jerry

jerry

reasonknot said:
The pholosophy of Lao Tsu is simple:Accept what is in front of you without wanting the situation to be other than it is...in other words:simply be.>
Click to expand...

live life on lifes terms.

but you know, you miss 100% of the shots that you dont take.
now i always saw it as, dont try-do.
well, if i mean to do, and fail, have i mearly tryed?
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
MULLINAX said:
Many Californians grasp at all sorts of esoteric stuff, be it EST, ROLFING, TM, Hare Krishna or whatever. It's all superficial nonsense. THE WIDOW latched on to all sorts of crystal ball mysticism because she was BORED, not committed. She was into whatever the flavour of the month was. When Christianity becomes cool in Marin County she'll turn to that as well.
Click to expand...
Sometimes you almost make a point (the law of averages or 100 monkeys at 100 typewriters, I don't know) then you go and fuck it all up.

You're all over the map with this screed of yours. Marin County has nothing to do with the rest of the country or even the state of California, and certainly nothing to do with what goes on in Southern California, culturally or otherwise. It's a big state, you should look at it on a map some time. You are latching on to cliches, as usual, to make your non-points and demonstrate your unparalleled flair for the obvious.

"The widow" grew up in Pennsylvania, not California, and has been consistent in her spiritual beliefs - whether you approve of them or not - for more than 30 years. You are 0 for 2 just on those few sentences. Living in Japan does not make you an expert on Buddhism, and reading some articles in old LIFE magazines doesn't make you an expert on California and it's strange natives.

As for the funeral, I agree that it was really off the wall to have a Buddhist ceremony for Charles Bukowski, but that's just the way it goes. He was dead, so I'm sure he had no strong feelings about it one way or the other. When you drop dead the woman (or guy - I don't mean to make any assumptions) who is ignorant and masochistic enough to marry you will put on the kind of funeral he or she wants you to have, just like most people do.
 
P

Paul186

My expression of "the Buk" being a quasi Zen master is not a serious, literal statement. BTW, the Buk quoted Li Po now and then.

The recent visit by the Dalai Llama quoted him as saying: "Buddhism is NOT a religion-it is a philosophy of Happiness."

Incidentally, I'm an Atheist, but dug the Buk's inclusion of an open view of things. Like the Impressionists in Paris, they were open to incoming new ideas on a global scale, it affected the subsequent art movements and we've never been the same.

The Buk fascinates me with his inclusion of the underclass as subject mater.

B-b-but, like most artists, I don't wanna meet them in person...I'll be satisfied digging on their creations.

Lately, I will invade Borders for his poems as a guy going to a well. Keeps me balanced.

Peace.
 
Ponder

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
mjp said:
Sometimes you almost make a point (the law of averages or 100 monkeys at 100 typewriters, I don't know) then you go and fuck it all up.
Click to expand...
Finally.

Actually, I am not so interested I agree with mullinax or not. I don't know the Japanese culture, but I find it disgusting to call Linda: "The widow".

I feel lucky this is not a Dutch forum, ( I'm not a member of any Dutch or foreign forum, except buknet.)
 
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