"Found" Poetry Anyone?

[niceguy]

I had a lengthly correspondence with Bukowski in the late 70s /early 80s. At the time, he was already a "legend" and receiving 200 letters on average per week from fans--and detractors. I was one of a handful that he regularly corresponded with--primarily because he knew I was a top-notch horse race handicapper (I made my living betting on horses back then) and the Buk was trolling for Tips and Angles on how to analyze the racing form--and I gave him plenty. If I had initially sent him a letter praising his work and goosing his rumpus, he never would have responded. "I get mostly letters from folks who want to waste my time talking aboubt iamb hexameter bullshit--a most disguting f--k--g subject" he informed me in one of his letters. During the course of our penpal relationship I would send him little dirty "found" poems gleaned from various non-poetic sources--which he immensely enjoyed and got a chuckle or two. For instance I sent him this at the close of a letter:

RYMING or RIMIMG

What Is Your Preference?

(fr Rogers International Thesarus, 3rd ed 1962):


feminine
rhyming
or
feminine riming ass-
onance

what is your preference?

masculine
rhyming
or
masculine riming ass-
onance

what is your preference?

rhyming
or
riming ass-
onance

what is your preference?


He wrote back that he got a chuckle from reading it and would henceforth try it on his girlfriend. NOT the poem but the actual rimming! (riming).!! "He once called me "the master of the absurd". After our corresponce ended (about 1985) I took a double-decker hiatus from writing but the muse returned about 3 months ago and my latest work is all in the "Found" format. I found and reworked about 20--which I plan to publish under the titled "Extravagent Absurdities.." I guess this is a longabout way of asking: is anyone interested in Found poetry these days? Does anyone write in this genre? Is anyone interested in sharing their founders? If so, please respond to this post or with contact info. Much Thanks, Al

 

[mjp]

I had a lengthly correspondence with Bukowski in the late 70s /early 80s.

You really don't have to start every thread like that.

But if you must, the word is lengthy. When your muse returned she should have brought a dictionary.

Is anyone interested in sharing their founders?

This isn't a poetry forum. We don't invite or encourage the posting of members poetry. Not that anyone would consider what you posted poetry, but you get the point.

There are other old lady tea party forums out there that will eat that ridiculous shit up. Try them.

 

[zenguru]

Ouch! Hope niceguy has some blood left.

 

[niceguy]

MJP: "not that anyone would consider what you posted poetry" Hey, the Buk considered it poetry--an outstanding and amusing found poem. I think everyone on this post will agree that Bukowski might be a little better judge of what constitutes an excellent experimental found poem--than you.
You're my favorite "thread stalker"--the first to chime in with your sardonic verbal attacks after I initiate a thread. I like that! You got moxie. Thank you! You remind me so very much of a chronic caller to a highly successful talk show host here in Miami who calls every day to lambast the host, telling him how he sucks and how he should retire and spend his days sipping tea with the old ladies. But this chronic wouldn't miss a day calling in to rant and complain. He hangs on the hosts every word.
Thanks, prof, for the spelling correction. At least your good for something. Maybe I'll have you proofread my next book of founders. Hows about 2 signed copies & 1% of gross sales as remuneration?
And now I just bet my friend $20 that you are hanging on every word of this thread RIGHT NOW and that you can't wait to proffer a response. If you respond, I win. If you don't, I lose. So please respond, man, I'm begging ya, ya knows ya want to, I can't afford to lose $20..that $$$ was earmarked for tea & cookies at the old folks home this weekend.

 

[mjp]

the Buk considered it poetry--an outstanding and amusing found poem.

Whoa, calm down Greta Van Bluster. I guess it never occurred to you that "the Buk" was only humoring you when he said it made him chuckle. Or did he say it was "outstanding"? Your story keeps changing.

Thanks, prof, for the spelling correction.

Had you done it once I wouldn't have commented. I was just trying to save you from embarrassing yourself further. But there's nothing wrong with a talented writer such as yourself being confused by the English language. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Knowing the actual words that should be used is highly overrated. Leave that kind of uptight jive to the intellectuals.

If you respond, I win. If you don't, I lose.

And no matter what happens in your life, I win. Ain't that a bitch?

Like having somebody fuck your wife while you are at work, as "the Buk" said.

 

[Rekrab]

niceguy: with all due respect, Buk may have been flattering you just to get the horseracing tips.

 

[d gray]

being called "master of the absurd" might not necessarily be meant as a compliment...

 

[zenguru]

And by the way, this is how "extravagant" is spelled. Can't believe mjp missed that one.

 

[mjp]

Oh yeah? Well I can't believe that you missed:

aboubt
disguting
corresponce
longabout​

But this is nothing more than spelling Naziism!

NEway, my muze told me 2 lay off,,, words don't mean nothin NEway,,, its gr8 ideas that r importnt.

 

[Stavrogin]

I rumple my stiltskin to each and every one of niceguy's posts so please play nice mjp. Do it for the children, if nothing else!

 

[zenguru]

Oh yeah? Well I can't believe that you missed:

aboubt
disguting
corresponce
longabout​

Oh YEAH? Well, I can't believe you can't believe that. So there. :D

 

[Mark73]

disguting is a nice word, but there should be another t.

to be disgutted by a poet

to disgut a poet

:shutup:

 

[Ponder]

I guess this is a longabout way of asking: is anyone interested in Found poetry these days? Does anyone write in this genre? Is anyone interested in sharing their founders? If so, please respond to this post or with contact info. Much Thanks, Al

Donald Rumsfeld did it, I mean Hart Seely did it or was it
Rumsfeld? Seely? Rumsfeld, Seely?
You're in good company, Al. You should be proud.

 

[mjp]

Yes, be proud.

And if anybody tells you that it's not super-creative and nothing but a dull, academic exercise undertaken by boring old blowhards, you tell them "the Buk" loved it and personally encouraged you to pursue your dream of entertaining the world with witty, knee-slapping gems like RYMING or RIMIMG in a lengthly penpal correspondence.

When the history of literature in the 20th century is written, you will figure prominently, my friend. I find invented or whimsically misspelled words like ryming and rimimg to be delightful, pushing the boundaries of stagnant old English to new and hilarious places. So yes, be proud. You are working on something that is beyond the grasp of the plebeians who inhabit this dung heap. March on brave word warrior, march on.

 

[niceguy]

Wish Me Luck, Mockingbirds

Hey, you guys are clever and sardonic! Never knew I had so many profreaders, oops I meant proofreaders (altho the first misspelling might apply) to choose from to help free my Extravagant Absurdities of spelling or syntactical enjambments. Thanks Zazen! Thanks MJP (my jewish princess) Actually (since we're here to discuss Bukowski) a spelling error was the pervasive catalyst in my sending Bukowski my first letter of praise. I had finished reading Erections...and there was a passage from a horse race story that contained a misspelled word and run-on phrase that only those who were die-hard race track denizens would have noticed. Bukowski agreed. "send an SASE and more tips, Fogel, and I'll sign anything you got."

Re Founders. Bukowski LOVED when I mocked the neo-formalists who were beginning to raise their ugly iambic hexameters with their precious pantoums & strangling Strophes


[edit, cut, chop, delete]

 

[mjp]

This still isn't a poetry forum.

 

[niceguy]

I'd like everyone to know that MJP deleted 3 fantastic founders (and he KNOWS they are top-notch and would interest Buk lovers) that I sent to Bukowski who absolutely LOVED them (along with a Bukowski-related Poetry Slam). I was led to believe (and I read in one of MJP posts) that you were allowed one thread to talk about your Bukowski-related poems. Perhaps the rules have changed? Or is MJP (Me Jealous, Padre .Hey, I'm one of a handful of guys still among the living who had an indirect (yet important) relationship with the Buk--thru correspondence. I still have stories to tell--but since I'm treated with disdain by your wonderful Leader-- you won't see me post no mo' But the Buk-related poems MJP { edit, cut, chop, deleted} are AWESOME and if anyone would like for me to email them to you, leave me a Private Message.

 

[chronic]

I saw them before they were removed and thought "what the hell?" Maybe I'm just too dumb to recognize greatness when I see it, but they seemed to be mostly pretty meaningless.

But yeah, there used to be a single thread where people could post their poems. It's been gone for two or three years and the forum is a better place for it.

 

[mjp]

Maybe I'm just too dumb to recognize greatness when I see it...

Eh, no.

 

[niceguy]

You guys don't get it. They are great FOUND poems--not great poems. For christ sake, they're just a reworking-- usually from a sub-literary source-- a turning of the verbal iambic undertone of formal or neo-formal academic-structured poesy up full volume for a moment, offering a chance to see it for what it is: Constrictive Bullshit. That's why Bukowski loved them. The first example was just a snippit--a passage I found in a thesaurus that caught my fancy "rimimg ass-onance" . I didn't say Bukowski thought that was great poetry--or poetry at all--and it amused him. But the 3 poems that MJP cut (along with several others) Bukowski LOVED & related to them in a personal way. Why? Because he was still being blackballed (hows my spelling mjp?) by academia--even tho there was a considerable groundswell of interest at the time (1982) by serious critics and poets who were breaking away from the shackles of outdated forms. "Bukowski's Drunken Pantoum" (cut), "Anti-Strophe" (cut) & "Pluperfect Poems before Jumping Out Of A 13 Story Window" (satire on Buks "poems before jumping"...Cut) ALL were Bukowski-related. I wasn't at all trying to promote my own shit. The only reason mjp removed them was because he knew they were so good that he couldn't ridicule them. Hey, if he did ridicule them, then mjp didn't GET IT--Bukowski GOT IT.(.Buk recognized Greatness in those great Founders). " Maybe I'm Just Too Dump" Maybe you are.

 

[zenguru]

there used to be a single thread where people could post their poems. It's been gone for two or three years and the forum is a better place for it.

I agree. If we posted our poetry here, it would detract from the purpose of a Bukowski forum.

Oh, and niceguy, you misspelled "though." ;)

 

[hoochmonkey9]

You guys don't get it.

that's right. it's us. not you.

 

[d gray]

"outstanding and amusing"
"excellent"
"fantastic"
"top notch"
"bukowski absolutely loved them"
"AWESOME"
"great"
"bukowski loved them"
"bukowski LOVED and related to them"
"mjp removed them because he knew they were so good"
"bukowski GOT IT"
"Buk recognized greatness"

well, at least you have one admirer around here...

 

[mjp]

You guys don't get it.

Hey, I thought you weren't going to post here any more?

You're just making yourself look crazy, you know.

 

[hoochmonkey9]

I'm not saying you're trying to build yourself into a sacred cow Al, but there are no sacred cows.

not even Bukowski. and especially not people he humored in letters.

don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled if Buk humored me, but I wouldn't try to win friends with it. I might try to get laid, but I'm pretty sure no one here wants to go to bed with me. or you.

 

[niceguy]

d Gray: You GOT IT, baby! A Found Poem with sardonic humor! You recycled the verbal bullshit of niceguy and juxtoposed it in a surprisingly different way, thus giving the original bullshit sayings of niceguy a new lease on life. As painter Howard Town wrote, "and its marvelous to think of the garbage of our age becoming the art of our time". Now look at poor MJP:The hot sardonic air has been left out of his tires: he starts out in a blaze of sardonic humor "There are other old lady tea party forums out there that will eat that ridiculous shit up. Try them" .HAHAHAHAHA Then the witty "Whoa, calm down Greta Van Bluster" HAHAHAHAHA .Then "And no matter what happens in your life, I win. Ain't that a bitch?" OH HAHAHAHAHA Then he tosses in the mix a great Buk quote "while having somebody fuck your wife while at work" (I wish somebody would..can I watch?). And then he's on sardonic FIRE with "be proud. You are working on something that is beyond the grasp of the plebeians who inhabit this dung heap. March on brave word warrior, march on." But then I list 3 great found poems that Buk loved and suddenly MJP's sardonic humor starts to evaporate "This isn't a poetry forum" And finally he wimpers out altogether " Hey, I thought you weren't going to post here any more? (awwwww, poor baby..you want me to leave?, huh? awww don't worry, i'm packin my bags) and finally "You're just making yourself look crazy, you know" (oh I know, that's why i've been receiving these crazed "Private Messages" clamoring for more founders whilst not saying the most kindest of words about (and you thought they were your friends???). Whoa.... See ya.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Please shut up!

 

[mjp]

that's why i've been receiving these crazed "Private Messages" clamoring for more founders...

I will put $1,000 U.S. cash money into an envelope tomorrow morning and send it to you via USPS Express Mail if you can get two people here to confirm that they sent you private messages asking for your "founders" before you posted your last message.

Everyone here is a witness to my offer. It should be easy money for you, especially since the clamoring masses of Fogel fans apparently don't think kindly of me. They should be eager to help you take my money.

 

[zenguru]

Mmmm...neh, I'm not that eager. Besides, how do we know you have a thousand dollars? ;)

 

[niceguy]

I will put $1,000 U.S. cash money into an envelope tomorrow morning and send it to you via USPS Express Mail if you can get two people here to confirm that they sent you private messages asking for your "founders" before you posted your last message.

Everyone here is a witness to my offer. It should be easy money for you, especially since the clamoring masses of Fogel fans apparently don't think kindly of me. They should be eager to help you take my money.

aww..poor baby..gotcha worried for a moment..huh? what happened to the sardonic humor so prevelent just a few replies ago? You sound so serious & somber. Chill Out, man. Now listen, why the hell would I bet you? Use your keppela. Why the hell would I bet when THE RACE IS FIXED. Huh? Being a webheiserMaster You got privy to prior knowledge, you know EXACTLY HOW MANY MESSAGES I GOT. That's why you are so BOLD as to make that wager! I would too--if I was the Webheimer! You can't lose. But I had ya worried, huh? Never in a million years would you make that wager if you weren't the Webmaster. Enough said. Hey, I'm leavin on a jet train--won't be back again--for another 2 years. This is my last reply. YIPEEE HI YAY SAY MY NAY SAYERS! Hey, here's ONE WAGER YOU CAN GO TO THE BANK ON..BET THE HOUSE ON mjp will REPLY to this message. Don't kid yourself. He lives & breathes my every word. I know his type--vurry well. He's gotta have the last word. It's a sickness. You'll see. He's gotta say sumptin--even if to deny the race is fixed. You'll see. I'd wager my house, my farm, my first born, my timeshare in Vegas & all the tea from the old ladies tea parties in china--that he'll respond. Just keep lookin below. It's commin. Wanna bet?