Greatest Guitarists - Yesterday & Today

[ROC]

Well, there's being in control of the material you possess and then there is how much material you possess.
Both play a role in my judgement of what I consider great and otherwise.

A good friend of mine practices guitar for 6 hours a day, most days and he's almost incapable of making music; he's terrible.

But no-one ever got anywhere without being in control of their materials - even if that's 'just' playing the blues over and over or country or whatever. And that takes practice.

I get bored with players who are very obviously limited or confined to doing only a handful of things for lack of craft, imagination or exposure. And that is 95% of popular music guitarists.

As for "no soul in perfection" or the pursuit thereof, one need not waste words arguing with that sentiment. Rather, simply say "Bach".

Of course, you may be talking just about guitarists, but I assumed otherwise.

 

[mjp]

I like Bach, but I would rather listen to Mozart or Beethoven, for the same reasons mentioned above. But classical composers aren't really a good comparison to guitar players because we'll never really hear their music played under their control, on the period instruments with rats nipping at our ankles and influenza about to kill us...that experience is long gone. Imagine someone two hundred years from now playing Jimi Hendrix songs from sheet music. That would sure be wild to hear, but it probably would not remind us of Hendrix playing.

 

[ROC]

Yes, you can hear a large amount of classical music under the direct control of the composer. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Schoenberg (conducting), Busoni, Part, Rautavaari, Messiaen and Ravel (playing) to name just a few. Some even playing their own music in the case of Busoni and Ravel.

But it seldom sounds as good because they spent their time practising composition not specific instruments.

But you start by saying one can't compare classical composers to guitar players and then do so.
Two hundred years from now, playing Hendrix from sheet music would probably fail simply because there is no conventional notation for many of the effects Hendrix used.

Of course some players (if they are in control of their craft) will be able to get very close by listening to the recordings and imitating. In fact, we are there now.

Anywho... we like what we like and there rarely needs to be (or can be) a solid justification for it. So I'll shut up now :)

 

[pichon64]

Guitar: Martin Barre

Popsicle: Vanilla with chocolate cover.

 

[homeless mind]

I like Bach, but I would rather listen to Mozart or Beethoven, for the same reasons mentioned above. But classical composers aren't really a good comparison to guitar players because we'll never really hear their music played under their control, on the period instruments with rats nipping at our ankles and influenza about to kill us...that experience is long gone. Imagine someone two hundred years from now playing Jimi Hendrix songs from sheet music. That would sure be wild to hear, but it probably would not remind us of Hendrix playing.

Solti may be as close as it gets.
Here's a brief behind the scenes of the man:

[This video is unavailable.]

Beethoven & Solti:

[This video is unavailable.]

More Bee & Sir Georg:

[This video is unavailable.]

Pax, hm

 

[Father Luke]

John Fahey
Mississippi John Hurt
Angus Young

 

[homeless mind]

Ah, the Angus "Duck Walk."

[This video is unavailable.]

Solid, Padre.

Pax,

hm

 

[Erik]

I see no difference between Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, The New York Dolls, Peter Tosh and Husker Du. They are one side of the coin. People who want to be somehow intellectually challenged by their music are the other. Same coin. I just prefer when the awkward, pimply, sometimes unpleasant living, breathing side comes up.

In that case I sure you could fit Neil Young in there somewhere... maybe after Bo Diddley?

 

[Short Bus]

Michael Hedges and everything stopped when he died.
He was going to places with an acoustic guitar no one had gone before.
And he could sing too.

 

[mjp]

Yes, you can hear a large amount of classical music under the direct control of the composer. Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Schoenberg (conducting), Busoni, Part, Rautavaari, Messiaen and Ravel (playing) to name just a few. Some even playing their own music in the case of Busoni and Ravel.

Since you brought up Bach, I was thinking more of his general contemporaries, the old dead guys, a couple hundred years in the dirt.

But you start by saying one can't compare classical composers to guitar players and then do so.

I brought up the Hendrix analogy to show why it wasn't a good comparison.

But I've kinda forgotten what we're talking about...

Oh, the pursuit of perfection. When I think of that I don't think of someone like Bach, but more of someone like Robert Schumann, who refused to accept that his physical injuries would prevent him from being the great pianist he thought he could be (and by all accounts he would have been), sitting at the piano with a counterweighted pulley system he devised pulling his lame fingers upward as he struggled to pound them down onto the keys...

But then I appreciate that kind of crazy, tunnel-vision single mindedness, so maybe that's not a good example. And he wasn't really striving for perfection, he was trying to overcome adversity, so scratch that.

Anyway, again, my tastes are not typical and I know that, so I go into any conversation like this already on the defensive.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

I can defend every one of those. I define "great" my way, and I understand that most everyone on earth has other definitions. Some people enjoy seeing the fruits of millions of hours of practice. I don't happen to be one of them. There is no soul in perfection. And certainly none in the pursuit of perfection.

I knew you were going to say that and you are right. You do write well when you get excited.
You have a point about Zappa too.

I did notice one of the clips had a Flying "V" guitar.;)

 

[Johannes]

My internet connection sucks ass and if I had to wait for every youtube link to build up, I'd go crazy now. But almost all the names named here I'm very much in tune with. Some I've never heard before, but will be glad to check out. This is a great thread!

Loving the guitar, it's sound and it's ways very much, I can assure you from sad personal experience that this is a most delicate topic, though. Discussions about it tend to get ugly.

"Yngwie Malmsteen? What the fuck. Steve Vai owns that fat clown 3432432times!!!"
"Punk killed the guitar solo!"
"They would all be nothing without Keith Richards you idiot bastard moron!"
"All I can say is Eddie van Halen. E d d i e v a n H a l e n!"

And on and on. It's worse than windows/mac, catholic/protestant, left/right, whatever.

If nobody named him til now, I'd quietly propose Tommy Emmanuel to consider.

After watching I was a fan.

 

[homeless mind]

If nobody named him til now, I'd quietly propose Tommy Emmanuel to consider.

After watching I was a fan.

yes! Yes! YEs! YES!

If I may humbly add to your incredible reco:

"Over the Rainbow" by said gent:

[This video is unavailable.]

 

[Johannes]

There's lots of cool stuff from him on youtube.

For example this powerful version of
Also another version of "Guitar Boogie" where he refers to it as "The Youtube Song", because it got so many views :)

Glad you like it.

Now if I only had one quarter of that skill and talent.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

There is no soul in perfection. And certainly none in the pursuit of perfection.

I see no difference between Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, The New York Dolls, Peter Tosh and Husker Du. They are one side of the coin. People who want to be somehow intellectually challenged by their music are the other. Same coin. I just prefer when the awkward, pimply, sometimes unpleasant living, breathing side comes up.

Acheiving perfection does not imply a lack of soul, but I would agree that trying to does.

One should also consider what constitutes perfection. For example, King Crimson's Starless comes as close to perfection as any R&R song I know. Is it played perfectly, from a musicologists perspective? Probably not. But it's still perfection to me.

As for your second point, I am clearly on the opposite side of your coin analogy, and I can assure you that the music I listen to is not only living and breathing, but it has high blood pressure and a beer gut. :D

 

[mjp]

I know. It's all the same bag.

It just irks me when people are quick to dismiss artists who are not perhaps as learned or technically proficient as others. I find all my joy in the slop. Listen to those Robert Johnson recordings. There is no technical perfection there. But there is mastery. He drove a generation of guitarists crazy trying to figure out how the fuck he did that.

And you mentioned Lennon - he was not a great musician if you are ranking people by technical ability. His genius was in his soul, and when he learned to let it out through his music he was unstoppable, and there is no one better.

Well, Marley, but that's different bag of lambsbread...I see them as very similar, Lennon and Marley. In fact I wrote about their similarities.

 

[rjwink666]

Another vote for Angus Young.

I was impressed with Rodrigo y Gabriela when I caught them live a couple of years ago, those two can play.

 

[hoochmonkey9]

I've been thinking a bit about style when it comes to guitar players. by style in this case I mean a distinct sound. and because I grew up in the '80s (I was 12 in 1980, 21 in 1989) I started thinking about guitar players that informed the type of music I listened to in that era. these players, while perhaps not the best players, had such a unique sound that you knew immediately who it was. and then other guitar players started borrowing it.

and that list (for me) includes:

D Boon from the Minutemen, who taught people the only knobs you need on your amp are treble and volume.

Johnny Marr from the Smiths, who launched the British jangly shoegazer guitar fad.

Peter Buck from REM, who launched the U.S. jangly shoegazer guitar fad.

The Edge from U2, who jangled but didn't shoegaze. and was Irish, which I'm sure made a difference somehow.

of course, there were the shredders in the '80s also, but I didn't listen to much of that type of music, so all the shredders sounded the same to me. except Eddie Van Halen. even when Eddie turned around to face the audience and people could see exactly what he was doing, no one could quite copy it.

but, D Boon died, the Smiths couldn't stand to be in the same room together, REM decided to start doing mediocre records.

and U2 decided to do what the Clash couldn't bear to: become the BIGGEST BAND IN THE WORLD. which of course involves bloated self indulgence. there's a big difference between the only band that matters and the biggest band in the world, but U2 embraced it.

they not only embraced it, they took it to bed and gently made sweet, sweet love to it and then spooned afterwords in a contented sleep. and in the morning they woke it up with breakfast in bed. too much? well, so was U2 in the '90s.

well, talk about bloated self indulgence....

EDIT: I forgot Thurston Moore from Sonic Youth. he's on my list, for convincing people that noise can sometimes be tuneful.

ok, I'm done. no more wanking. figuratively, at least. literally, I'll continue to wank. fyi.

 

[homeless mind]

Lennon & Marley

I know. It's all the same bag.

It just irks me when people are quick to dismiss artists who are not perhaps as learned or technically proficient as others. I find all my joy in the slop. Listen to those Robert Johnson recordings. There is no technical perfection there. But there is mastery. He drove a generation of guitarists crazy trying to figure out how the fuck he did that.

And you mentioned Lennon - he was not a great musician if you are ranking people by technical ability. His genius was in his soul, and when he learned to let it out through his music he was unstoppable, and there is no one better.

Well, Marley, but that's different bag of lambsbread...I see them as very similar, Lennon and Marley. In fact I wrote about their similarities.

Nice article, MJP. Reco all Lennon and Marley fans to read it! This is not meant to be combative, so please leave that donut at Krsipy Kreme (I know how things can get misinterpreted in forums, want to avoid that). Curious how you think Marley and religion didn't mix, if I have the read correctly in your article?

Three Little Birds, I believe is relative to Psalms 84:3.

Some of Marley's lyrics from the song:

Rise up this mornin,
Smiled with the risin sun,
Three little birds
Pitch by my doorstep
Singin sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true,
Sayin, this is my message to you-ou-ou:

Singin: dont worry about a thing, worry about a thing, oh!
Every little thing gonna be all right. dont worry!
Singin: dont worry about a thing - I wont worry!
cause every little thing gonna be all right.

Marley also sings: "Let Jah provide the way..."
The Jah definition from WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jah

As far as JL goes, man, I miss him. Paint him. And my son, 12, knows most of his lyrics, and what I believe them to mean...we have long discussions about him. Try explaining in today's world, "Give peace a chance." Sounds simple, but try it. Or, explaining, "Imagine there's no heaven, I wonder if you can..." I'm not a bible thumper, but do believe in God.

Here's a snippet of something I wrote when asked to give a few remarks recently at an art event:

//

Imagine a world without music.
Imagine a world without art.

The wind would have never cried Mary.
The jingle jangle morning would have never followed us.
We'd never strive to break on through to the other side.
Me and Bobby McGee would have never been busted down in Baton Rouge.
The sky would have never cried.
We would have never traveled down Thunder Road.
Jailhouses would have never rocked.
Strawberry fields wouldn't have been forever.
Important Redemption songs would have never been sung.
Little pink houses wouldn't have been built.
We wouldn't know to give peace a chance.

Imagine a world without music.
Imagine a world without art.

//

I agree with your view on Marley and Lennon being similar. Both men I admire; hold close to my heart for many reasons. They have, for lack of better words, helped change and shape my life.

 

[mjp]

Curious how you think Marley and religion didn't mix, if I have the read correctly in your article?

Three Little Birds, I believe is relative to Psalms 84:3.

Marley's lyrics, and Reggae lyrics in general from that era are very much bible-based. But Rastafarians would tell you that Rasta is not a religion, but rather a way of life. They find most religions corrupt, and believe that Rome and the Pope are the source of most of the world's problems.

But it's kind of impossible to really explain what Rastas think because they don't all think the same thing. There is no organization, no churches or temples, hence no organized religion. Though by strict definition you could call it a religion, since it's based on supernatural beliefs.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Meanwhile back at the World's Greatest Guitar Players Ranch:

A talented guitar player whose soul is often overlooked because he immersed mayonnaise and surrounded in white bread is


Walter Becker of [This video is unavailable.]

 

[homeless mind]

I'm reelin' and realin' after listening to Walter; nice.

 

[slimedog]

Bob Quinne

Marc Ribot

Robert Fripp

 

[EuropeYankee]

at the harder section:
ZAKK WYLDE!!! (black Label Society, Ozzy Osbourne)
Yngwie Malmsteen
Michaelangelo Batio

and then:
Dweezil Zappa,
Johnny Cash
Neil Young
Satriani
Steve Vai

oh yeah... i've seen Robert Fripp in 2004...together with Joe Satriani and Steve Vai (G3 Concert) awful... like: aweful, i will never play like them^^

 

[scribbler]

I just saw Zakk at the Iridium in NYC. (November) He was a special guest at the Les Paul show. He got good and drunk and tore it up...sang his ass off too...blues. Les pretty much just tells stories, and tosses-in a sweep every now and then with his grotesquely arthritic hands. It was a fancy 90 minutes (100 bucks including the drinks) but I had been meaning to do it for twenty years. BTW, Eric Johnson was the other featured guest and he sucked...what a weakling. Zakk didnt mind letting him know this.

 

[EuropeYankee]

zakk is just THE man with the balls,...and he shows them to everybody!

btw...he doesn't NEVER sweep! he has a tatic alternate picking

 

[scribbler]

LES sweeps, not Zakk. Les Paul.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Hmmm...I've been playing guitar since 1977 and I've never heard the term "sweeps" in this context. Maybe it belongs in the same bin as a "wet" sound? ;)

 

[scribbler]

Purple, you've heard it a million times. Its a lighting quick scale that happens by the method and within the time of a strummed chord. Used as embellishment. I cant recall but I think it goes back to Charlie Christian. Les made it famous with Mary on those recordings.

 

[Black Swan]

Jimi,
then, I liked frank marino from mahogany rush and of course the old blues men.