If I may (?)

ROC

ROC

It is what it is
I've thought long and hard about posting this...
I do so because I respect some of the minds who post on this site and I would be very interested to hear what you make of it all.

I would like to ask anyone who is interested to watch all eleven 'episodes' of this...


...and say what they think.

Without clicking on the link - it relates to inconsistencies in the official story of 9/11.
It's well over an hour of viewing all up, so some effort and patience is required.
I don't want this to turn into a bung-fight, and if mjp feels it's best to 'pull' this post, I'm OK with that too. I'm merely interested to hear what some of you guys think... particularly those who live in the states.

best,

ROC
 
Father Luke

Father Luke

Founding member
Having lived, traveled, and broken bread with , conspiracy
theories get my blood racing just a little bit, like a Highlander anticipating the quickening.

I'll watch it, and thank you in advance for the links, but I probably won't comment. After
having been among the most blood thirsty, savage, political and nefarious office
in-fighting (remember I was once part of the Church), public debates seem so... .

Thanks for the links.
Truly.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
No problem and you're welcome Father Luke.
But, if you do watch them all... maybe you will feel inclined to comment.

We'll see.

And thanks for the benefit of the doubt, mjp.
 
Onions

Onions

I have watched a couple of these. I have also seen many documentaries about this issue. At the end of the day, we will never realy know (not in our lifetimes at least) what the truth is. Is Al Quieda a branch of the CIA? Did Clinto really set this up for Bush to go to war with Iraq? Are Tony Blair and George Bush cousins? Is a smoking building liable to collapse in 50 minutes? Was there really a flight 97? Does my anus itch due to lack of vitamin D?
Personally, what do I think? I think that if these conspiracy theories are true, it is a sad and sick way to say 'thanks for voting me in' to the friends and relatives of the dead, and to the troops and their relatives.
If it's not true, and Al-Quieda are a real indipendant rebel fighting force and are 100% responsible, then these stories are raking in wads of cash which should be used to set up a fund for the victims families, that includes the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan etc.

One thing that does surprise me is that with all the interrigence in the world, you cannot stop someone doing something they really want to do. If a small group of guys wanted to blow something up, they will. Especially if it involves them blowing themselves up in the process. Explosives can be made from household items and any fool with enough nouse can concoct them if they wished. Do I live in fear of another 'terrorist attack'? Certainly not the kind they want you to believe is coming.

Like I said, we may never know.
 
bogthing

bogthing

I've seen a lot of it Onions, and find it all very hard to watch. I lived in New York City (Brooklyn) at the time of these events, and it's left a terrible feeling with me ever since. We lost no one, or knew any of the victims personally, but it's left it's mark on both my wife and I. I had just gotten home from work that morning (I worked the over night shift at a city hospital) when my wife called me into the bedroom to see what was happening. The Hospital called me shortly afterward to say that I was on standby, and may need to be called in the event of major casualties.

My wife would not let me out of the house until later that day, when I walked down to the Promenade to look over at the mess. There are many aspects of the whole business that bother me greatly. It seems that many accept the popular explanation and are comfortable with it. I do not and find it still very chilling and bizarre.

I don't really know what to think of it. Still
 
chronic

chronic

old and in the way
I've seen a couple of the Alex Jones documentaries and he always seemed to fit the stereotype of the wacky conspiracy theorist, making his theories, while interesting, a bit hard to swallow. This is presented well and in a calmer and more methodical way and is much more convincing.

I've believed for some time that the administration "stood-down" when the WTC was attacked (everything points to at least that) in order to have public leverage to promote their agenda, but I never really believed that the US may have planned and executed the attacks themselves. I no longer find that so hard to swallow. I think that it's at least possible that this is a hybrid situation where the administration stood-down when they were aware of the planned attack and then finished the job themselves. I've come to believe that the government of the US, and particularly this administration, is capable of anything. One problem I've always had with this sort of theory is a feeling that basic human decency would cause at least some of the people involved to come forward and admit their part in the crime, but if nobody is listening, and if "human decency" is a myth...

The theft of the presidency in 2000 should have tipped the people of this country off to just how corrupt our system has become, but the media (with very few exceptions), being a major part of that theft, didn't report on it at all except to ridicule those who raised questions about the process that put Bush in office. Since then, the administration has tested the American public by committing greater and more brazen crimes against the constitution to see what they could get away with. The bad news is that they get away with pretty much all of it and with little mention in the media. When an ugly story does arise they change the subject and show you Janet Jackson's tit, Brittney Spears' pussy or OJ Simpson's latest crime. Unfortunately much of the public willingly falls right into this trap, preferring spectacle over information.

In the past few years it's become obvious how the corporate controlled media (which sounds like a cliché, but is the most accurate description that I can think of), when they give them any attention at all, marginalize people with viewpoints that differ from the "accepted truth" (aka the party line). Dennis Kucinich is a good example, as are Bernie Sanders and John Conyers. Every time a valid point that goes against administration ideology is brought up it's labeled as "playing-politics" or "supporting the terrorists" and dismissed. If it weren't for the internet and access to foreign news publications, where would Americans get any real news in this part of the 21st century (other than dribs and drabs that make it into the NY Times and a few other papers, which not many people read anymore anyway)?

Through cynical manipulation by the government and its media channels and a lack of critical thinking (something which is not emphasized in US schools BTW) in this country the American public has given away their constitution, their liberties, and their country to a few banks and corporations. Any solution would involve the people taking back control of the the airwaves (which are in fact owned by the public), doing away with the current stupid electoral system, revoking corporate "personhood," eliminating the Federal Reserve (and by the way, did you know that most of your income tax goes to pay interest to the Federal Reserve, which is a privately owned central bank? See for a very good history of the Fed), a reinstatement of the draft in the form of required military or public service (not to serve the government, but to serve the people... anybody remember civics?), and a complete overhaul of the public school system in the US. An intelligent and informed public can make its own decisions, thank you.

Are the American people too fat, lazy and complacent to make these changes? Yeah, probably.
 
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Onions

Onions

chronic said:
The theft of the presidency in 2000 should have tipped the people of this country off to just how corrupt our system has become,
Click to expand...

I love that line.

To bogthing, I can't imagine what it must have been like, or must still be like to live through something like that, added to it the conspiracies etc it's bad enough watching from a great distance.

Chronic, the internet has ben a kind of saviour in all this. While on the one side, the media in general have the power to drill any kind of bullshit into peoples heads, anyone with any nouse about them will try to find other sides to every story. Here in the UK all you read about is bad news, stuff that is going to make your day grey and dreary. They subliminaly fill your eyes with brainwashing headlines and lead to to think a certain way. I've actually seen this happen with people. You may have heard the story that is continuously running over here about the girl who went missing in Portugal in May. One day people will say they believe she was abducted by a paedophile, and they will believe this for as long as the press alows them to. Then, they will change their story and accuse the parents of her murder and the public will then condemn the parents , as instructed subliminally by the press. Rather than looking at all the facts available (which is a quite a bit if you can be bothered to look into it) then draw your own conclusions.

Anyway, going lightly off topic there:p, was Alex Jones the guy who did the 'Loose Change' movies?
 
Short Bus

Short Bus

I've treaded into political discussions on this forum before, always with regret.
This post; evidence of a new found wisdom
 
chronic

chronic

old and in the way
Onions said:
You may have heard the story that is continuously running over here about the girl who went missing in Portugal in May. One day people will say they believe she was abducted by a paedophile, and they will believe this for as long as the press alows them to. Then, they will change their story and accuse the parents of her murder and the public will then condemn the parents , as instructed subliminally by the press.
Click to expand...

Yep, I've heard about that here lately. In the US, on CNN, we have this hideous, slug-like creature called Nancy Grace and this kind of stuff is her bread and butter. She tracks down all of the sad cases of missing children and abused spouses and turns them into pocket-change for herself and her employers, all the while with a look of concerned horror on her face that such horrible people exist. IMO she's right up there with the worst of them. Child murder and abuse as entertainment... excuse me while I vomit.
 
Father Luke

Father Luke

Founding member
Delusions of grandeur

The only problem with this video, of course, is that it is a made for profit event. It was
designed to sell, . And, in the words of its
creator, has sold tidal waves.

Pick your favorite yellow journalism gossip rag.
Insert sensational headline, shake vigorously. Instant sales.
People want to dish the dirt. It's a great way to pass the time.

That goes beyond any conspiracy to the heart of that video. I believe.

The woman whose voice you hear, lulling, and calmly speaking through out the
event, lied. She has admitted she's lied. In so doing, she has done any true
investigation a disservice. All in the name of a few bucks. She is scum. Fuck her. Hard.

Her, and the fear-mongering, profit oriented, quick-buck, con artists of her ilk,
deserve no attention. Not from me. Except for discrediting them wherever I
find them.
 
D

dolittle2x

Father Luke said:
Her, and the fear-mongering, profit oriented, quick-buck, con artists of her ilk,
deserve no attention. Not from me. Except for discrediting them wherever I
find them.
Click to expand...

Well put,
and,
ideally,
the final word...
the end of this shit
 
Rob.

Rob.

The biggest problem I have with the conspiracy theory is the deliberate professional demolition of the towers. If the administration is evil enough to kill 3,000 people in order to instigate a war, why take so much care in making sure the building falls straight down. Seriously, what's a few hundred more dead? As so many have pointed out, it would have appeared much more realistic anyway, had the towers toppled to one side. The administration is brilliant enough to wire an entire building to expode without being detected, but doesn't realize that there are demolition experts all over the world to whom such an act would be obvious. I have never heard of someone being so smart yet so stupid at the same time.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
Father Luke said:
The only problem with this video, of course, is that it is a made for profit event. It was
designed to sell, . And, in the words of its
creator, has sold tidal waves.

Pick your favorite yellow journalism gossip rag.
Insert sensational headline, shake vigorously. Instant sales.
People want to dish the dirt. It's a great way to pass the time.

That goes beyond any conspiracy to the heart of that video. I believe.

The woman whose voice you hear, lulling, and calmly speaking through out the
event, lied. She has admitted she's lied. In so doing, she has done any true
investigation a disservice. All in the name of a few bucks. She is scum. Fuck her. Hard.

Her, and the fear-mongering, profit oriented, quick-buck, con artists of her ilk,
deserve no attention. Not from me. Except for discrediting them wherever I
find them.
Click to expand...

For someone who was not likely to post, you sure caved in to the temptation and posted with the kind of vitriolic hyperbole I was sincerely wishing to avoid here.
We're big boys, huh.
We can discuss this without resorting to "fucking" anyone "hard" surely?

I listened to that link you provided and can't say that I heard her "admit to lying".

And dolittle2x, it annoys you, this discussing of things 9/11?
Why?
 
Father Luke

Father Luke

Founding member
Whew.

Okay.

Three things:
Number one
You wrote:
"No problem and you're welcome Father Luke.
But, if you do watch them all... maybe you will feel inclined to comment.

We'll see."

Hey, man. I never go where I'm not invited.
Translation anyone?

(you asked for it)

Number two:
Fuck seemed so much stronger a word than fornicate.
What would be appropriate wordage when discussing a woman
making money on sensationalizing deaths of my neighbors?
Substitute that in it's stead, and I will be happy.

Number three:

dolittle2x never wrote that discussing 911 things was annoying.

What doolittle2x wrote was:

Well put,
and,
ideally,
the final word...
the end of this shit

And to that I say here, here.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
It seems that you find all this so distressing that you don't want others to talk about it.
That's seems strange to me.
If you don't wish to discuss it (FL and dolittle), don't discuss it. Don't contribute to this thread and don't let it trouble you. But why do we need an 'end of this shit'?
As if discussing it were a bad thing in itself.

Yes you were 'invited' to comment FL, but I also mentioned a desire not to turn this into a bung fight.
So, I asked for what?
And I'm not to infer from doliitle2x words...
Well put,
and,
ideally,
the final word...
the end of this shit
...that he is annoyed at the prospect of discussing this topic?
No, he never wrote the word annoying, but your nit picking seems more than a little petty there.

Oh well.
So, in the interest of maintaining civility on this forum maybe mjp (in the words of Larry Silverstein) should pull it?

Consider it a failed experiment.
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
How about those Dodgers!

Anyway, if history teaches us anything (and that is debatable) it is that you can't discuss politics or religion without twisting a lot of knickers, as the (British) kids say. And at the end of the day it is unlikely that anyone will say, "I see what you mean, maybe you're right," whichever side you're on.
 
ROC

ROC

It is what it is
I see what you mean, maybe you're right.



;)


Sorry for the twisted knickers.


Now...


Which is the one true faith?

A prize of nuclear weapons goes to the correct respondent.
 
Olaf

Olaf

I don't matter, but maybe the world and the people do, and I for one am thoroughly convinced that thee offical account of 9/11 - is horribly insufficient, and that there are indeed, powerful political forces that shaped this event: whether Globalists, Elite Social Egineers, or Secret Services: this event is not a KOSHER as the official account suggests.

Have you ever watched the William Rodriquez lecture? He was the janitor in one of the trade tower buildings for 20 years, he recounts his experience on the day, his actiosn, his survivial, and most importantly tha fact that he and several other workers were invovled in explosions in the basement on 9/11 before any of the planes hit.

Interesting story....you should watch it if you have spare time.

Here is the link: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-276277230182836708&q=William+Rodriquez

'Corruption and Conspiracy - are in fact: the only interesting aspects of politics! the extent to which they are a central feature in any given politics, yet the least focused on, is overwhelming' - Olaf

:D

Truth and Honesty - are prison sentences!
 
Short Bus

Short Bus

Come on!!!!!!!!

.
tha fact that he and several other workers were invovled in explosions in the basement on 9/11 before any of the planes hit.


So how the F do they know what happened if they are in the basement?
Did they run outside check for planes-no planes-then return to the basement?

Crikey I like black helicopters as much as the next guy but this stuff is beyond all logic...Is Bin Laden bragging about the act part of the conspiracy?

What if the planes missed? Those explosions would look pretty stupid.... even from the basement.

And what a great plan, get Sauidi nationals to live in Germany send emails back and forth then get on planes then crash into the pentagon strange how that conspiracy element is always missed. The Pentagon was hit. Get it.
Wheres a grassy knoll when you need one


So much for wisdom....
 
S

slimedog

I won't say that I know all that happened.

But I know for sure the plan was foisted here in this forum.

By folks I won't devulge for my own safety.
 
bogthing

bogthing

I don't know about who or what did it, I was a kid when Kennedy was shot, and look how that continues to be bandied about. I guess what bothers me most is what occurred afterward, the whole fear campaign(s) that have been capitalized on. "Homeland Security" the Patriot Act, the collapse of critical mainstream journalism and press.

The way that nearly every day, black clad commandos in black Chevy Suburbans arrive at the scene to posture aggressively, and ham it up for the thousands of tourists that continue to arrive at the site. The way the city, state and country continue to lord over the site like ghouls over a corpse, refusing to properly memorialize the dead years afterward.


The way that every wednesday, police cars from every precinct in the city form a shreiking massive parade that converges on the site, as if to convey that they are "on the job".

The way that Giuliani maintains he saved the city and was on scene immediately, but many others remember his not arriving until 1:00pm or so...

Ah...
 
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