I thought acrylics too. He'd paint straight from the tube wouldn't he? Fast and loose. Must have been amusing to him how much these painting increased the value of his books, considering how he must have knocked them out fairly quickly.
I'm either lucky, or dumb..... War All the Time w/painting
- Thread starter kilgore
- Start date
I know - I was pretty surprised. I've worked with oil, watercolor, acrylic, and pastels, and it really seemed like pastels to me. It seemed pretty chalky like pastels are. There's a tissue page between the copywrite page and the painting to protect both, I presume.
That being said, I really just looked at it quickly, snapped a picture, and had to hit the road. When I get home tomorrow, I'll take a better look, and some better pics.
That being said, I really just looked at it quickly, snapped a picture, and had to hit the road. When I get home tomorrow, I'll take a better look, and some better pics.
Just as I posted, Hank Solo's came in - it could well be acrylic, I suppose. We'll see tomorrow! I've wondered too about the cost. Awhile back I made a shockingly nerdy spreadsheet that has all the cover prices for the various editions. Of the ones with paintings, Days, Mockingbird, South of No North, Burning in Water, and Factotum were all $30 originally. Post office was $25. Love is a Dog from Hell, Play the Piano Drunk were $40, Women, Dangling in the Tournefortia, Ham on Rye, Hot Water Music were $50, and War all the Time (I believe the last with original artwork) was $75.
Ham on Rye & Hot Water Music had lettered editions with artwork that were $75 each, and War All the Time was $100 for the lettered edition.
I know it's been discussed before, but this comes to 1,063 BSP Bukowski books with original artwork, at a total cover price of $49,550 - an average price of $46.61 per volume (with a painting). If you assume they'd average about $2k at auction, that's a 4291% increase. NUTS!
All that being said, I'm curious what the values were 20 years ago when Buk was still alive. Where the costs crazily through the roof? Would he have been scratching his head/laughing, etc? Or was it more like a book that sold for $40 in 1974 was (in 92) worth $200, a 5 fold increase in two decades (pretty reasonable)?
I've only been collecting for about 8-10 years, so don't have the info on that, but I'm certainly curious.
Ham on Rye & Hot Water Music had lettered editions with artwork that were $75 each, and War All the Time was $100 for the lettered edition.
I know it's been discussed before, but this comes to 1,063 BSP Bukowski books with original artwork, at a total cover price of $49,550 - an average price of $46.61 per volume (with a painting). If you assume they'd average about $2k at auction, that's a 4291% increase. NUTS!
All that being said, I'm curious what the values were 20 years ago when Buk was still alive. Where the costs crazily through the roof? Would he have been scratching his head/laughing, etc? Or was it more like a book that sold for $40 in 1974 was (in 92) worth $200, a 5 fold increase in two decades (pretty reasonable)?
I've only been collecting for about 8-10 years, so don't have the info on that, but I'm certainly curious.
Fogel (1999) lists 'War All The Time' with painting at $1250. I don't know but those editions must have been selling for a much higher price than $75 even before Bukowski died.
And I wonder how many of them stayed with Martin for a while after publication... :aerb:
And I wonder how many of them stayed with Martin for a while after publication... :aerb:
"And I wonder how many of them stayed with Martin for a while after publication... :aerb:"
I've wondered about that as well. Obviously, we'll never know. One question - I was going through some old PBA sales, and saw that for 'War All the Time' they've sold 'K' which had an oil painting, #40 which had an oil painting, and most recently, #32 which they say comes "With an original oil pastel painting by Charles Bukowski of a face, signed "Buk" (in black) tipped-in following title, with wax-paper guard" which seems to be exactly what I have. But, Hank Solo, you seem pretty confident it couldn't be pastels. I'm guessing either a) when I meant oil pastel, you thought I meant not oil pastels or b) PBA is incorrect. I defer to your wisdom, but any thoughts are obviously appreciated!
I've wondered about that as well. Obviously, we'll never know. One question - I was going through some old PBA sales, and saw that for 'War All the Time' they've sold 'K' which had an oil painting, #40 which had an oil painting, and most recently, #32 which they say comes "With an original oil pastel painting by Charles Bukowski of a face, signed "Buk" (in black) tipped-in following title, with wax-paper guard" which seems to be exactly what I have. But, Hank Solo, you seem pretty confident it couldn't be pastels. I'm guessing either a) when I meant oil pastel, you thought I meant not oil pastels or b) PBA is incorrect. I defer to your wisdom, but any thoughts are obviously appreciated!
Last edited by a moderator:
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Oil pastels would be more stable, not so dusty.
Don't tell me now that JM edited his artwork. :D
Don't tell me now that JM edited his artwork. :D
mjp
Founding member
I think the prices started to rise in 1986 when You Get So Alone was published and people (and dealers) realized there wouldn't be any more books with paintings.
I don't know what the prices were like in 1986, but as I recall, they sold for about $750 in the early 90s and went up to around $1250 right after he died. They stayed in that range for some time.
That's a general price for a general book with a painting. Early "deluxe" editions of Days Run Away, Terror Street and Post Office and almost always sell for a premium above that. You see illustrated versions of those titles much less frequently than the later books.
---
For what it's worth, that looks like oil pastels to me. Look at the edges of the lines. They are too rough to be brushed paint.
DirtyJersey13
The Cruelty of Loveless Love
Sweet Jesus you are a lucky fuck! Just when I thought that steals were no longer possible on Ebay, this happens! And the ironic thing is that the last time I was in your shop in Denver this was one of our topics of discussions: how risky is it to pull the trigger on an Ebay item that seems to good to be true? Good times.
mjp
Founding member
Or is that 10% of its value?
www.ebay.com/itm/WAR-ALL-TIME-art-SIGNED-LETTERED-copy-Bukowski-1984-1st-Edition-/260961558282
That seller started to write a biography there! I mean, if you're going to pay $4000 for a book, you would imagine the buyer would know quite a bit about the writer. I like the fact Buk painted a Moomin, though :)
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
If there is a coat of gesso on the paper, oil or acrylic will stay on the surface. Smell it! If it's oil, it will smell like oil.
Man, it really chafes my hide that even by Ham on Rye, Buk was having to duke it out over $30 worth of paints. I mean, that's fucking ridiculous. Just the copies of HoR with paintings had a total cover price of $1950, and that doesn't count the myriad presentation copies, file copy, publisher copy, printer's copy, etc. etc. Sheesh!
That eBay copy of War All the Time on eBay has been up for a long time. I don't think it was sold on PBA (it's not the database), but it's been up forever on eBay.
As far as the back of the painting on my copy, here ya go:
That eBay copy of War All the Time on eBay has been up for a long time. I don't think it was sold on PBA (it's not the database), but it's been up forever on eBay.
As far as the back of the painting on my copy, here ya go:
mjp
Founding member
Sure looks like oil stick to me. Thick acrylic or liquid oil paint makes the paper pucker, for lack of a better descriptive word, and that looks flat. But it's difficult to really tell from pictures.
Maybe you should send the book to me so I can take a closer look. I'll send it right back. Promise.
Maybe you should send the book to me so I can take a closer look. I'll send it right back. Promise.
you're right!
That's where I've seen it over and over again.
Looks like this is on ebay again...
