Well, at least you seem to have conviction about what you don't know.
In Women, What is ATD?
- Thread starter Ninjerk
- Start date
The title of the article you cite might lead one to depend on the title for clarification or "proof" of your statement. Benzodiazepines vs antidepressants suggests two classes; one for benzodiazepines and one for antidepressants. Quoting from what you linked to:
"While there has been a shift in recent years toward using such newer antidepressants as SSRIs and SNRIs as first-line treatments for anxiety disorders instead of benzodiazepines..."
"In trials that compared benzodiazepines with the newer antidepressants..."
I dunno; these two statements suggest to me that benzodiazepines have therapeutic indications as antidepressants; albeit perhaps not on the cutting edge. There's plenty of evidence out there that benzodiazepines have been prescribed as antidepressants.
Now, whether they are actually effective in that capacity is subject for debate. The context of this thread is what ATDs meant back in the '70s. It seems clear to me that they were prescribed as antidepressants back in the '70s and '80s,
"While there has been a shift in recent years toward using such newer antidepressants as SSRIs and SNRIs as first-line treatments for anxiety disorders instead of benzodiazepines..."
"In trials that compared benzodiazepines with the newer antidepressants..."
I dunno; these two statements suggest to me that benzodiazepines have therapeutic indications as antidepressants; albeit perhaps not on the cutting edge. There's plenty of evidence out there that benzodiazepines have been prescribed as antidepressants.
Now, whether they are actually effective in that capacity is subject for debate. The context of this thread is what ATDs meant back in the '70s. It seems clear to me that they were prescribed as antidepressants back in the '70s and '80s,
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Skygazer
And in the end...
:wb:
I didn't say they were antidepressants.If it reads that way, it's bad writing on my part, I'm sorry, I didn't think they needed any explaination as to which drug group they belong; they are depressants, or anxiolytics as they are called now.
But we've discovered it's a welfare benefit reference, I thought it might have been some reference to a local CB Radio thing. Glad I didn't say.:wb:
I didn't say they were antidepressants.If it reads that way, it's bad writing on my part, I'm sorry, I didn't think they needed any explaination as to which drug group they belong; they are depressants, or anxiolytics as they are called now.
Massively overprescribed, particularly to women, but as early as the mid sixties their negative effects were being attacked culturally, with books like Jacquelin Susann's Valley of the dolls and The Rolling Stones song "Mother's Little Helper" long before Roche (Valium) and others, along with GP's started to put the brakes on prescribing so easily.
But we've discovered it's a welfare benefit reference, I thought it might have been some reference to a local CB Radio thing. Glad I didn't say.:wb:
Whether they actually are or are not, they've been prescribed as such for years.
Skygazer
And in the end...
No doubt they were Purple and are, but not good practice. However if there is a high degree of anxiety along with depression which there can be, what an easy choice - to prescribe another pill. Certainly in the sixties and seventies, women across the U.S and Western Europe were going to their Gps in droves complaining of anxiety and depression/stress. Valium was seen as a wonder drug, It's name derived from latin, meaning be well and strong or somesuch. Roche chose very cunningly. turned out to be the first billion dollar drug.
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Read more carefully. SSRIs and SNRIs are newer antidepressants than TCAs and she was talking about how most of the studies were comparing benzos with TCA's even though the newer antidepressants (SSRIs and SNRIs) are prescribed more often.
And yes I think a medical article comparing the two is pretty good evidence they are not the same. By the way we are only having this conversation because you have not actually taken antidepressants (be grateful for this). If you had you would surely not be suggesting they are the same type of drug as Xanax or Valium..
The point of this in regards to Bukowski is that the term "antidepressants" did not hit the popular lexicon until Prozac became legal and popular which was in the late eighties and thus not particularly likely to have impacted his writing.
On a more positive note I came to this thread because I did not know what ATD was. Now I know. Thanks everyone.
I'm not suggesting that antidepressants are necessarily "the same type of drug" as Xanax or Valium. Many classes of drugs (from a chemical structure standpoint) can have therapeutic indications for various conditions. No one type of drug is an antidepressant; nor are Xanax or Valium necessarily efficacious against a single condition (italics indicate that they may be most efficacious against a single condition, but as an illustrative example, many drugs have therapeutic benefit in a variety of conditions).
All I'm really trying to demonstrate is that benzodiazepines have shown antidepressant activity/efficacy:
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/406244
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006322395000497 (Note that alprazolam, which is indicated here as a possible option for those cases where other antidepressants are contraindicated, etc., is Xanax.)
This paper indicates that benzodiazepines have been used in conjunction with antidepressants to reduce anxiety and possibly increase efficacy of the antidepressant (in the interest of full disclosure; note that anxiety can no doubt lead to depression, so an anti-anxiety drug could also be viewed as an "indirect" antidepressant): http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/11869584
The age of these articles suggests that, in the context of this thread (the 1970s), benzodiazepines may well have been prescribed as antidepressants. There's enough evidence for me to decide that this is a reasonable conclusion; especially in contrast to being certain that it is unreasonable.
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Give me the Bukowski quotes with the word "antidepressant"
