Mack Derouac

[zoom man]

Didn't Jack have a memoir, or a fictionalized account of his life in Paris?,
A slim book from Black Cat I think...
Just googled it and got nowhere,
and ABE is down just this minute, but I loved it.
And OTR too, and one more, that hasn't been mentioned here, and that I can't remember right now.
Personally, I would guess Jack's looks begot (sp?, or new word?!) immediate jealously,
which of course made the bottle a greater (and easier) turn-to-friend

could you tell me where I can find Buk references to Salinger?

Try pages 269 and 311 from Reach for the Sun
and
page 159 from Sifting through the Madness
and
page 278 from Love is a Dog from Hell
then
Last Night of the Earth Poems page 401.

BTW, I really dig Salinger too

 

[hank solo]

Amazing! :D

 

[Bukfan]

Amazing indeed! You've finally got competition, hank solo.

 

[mjp]

How gruesome can it get? With baited breath the internet tough guy awaits my next clickety-click, in the meantime cooking up one, two, even five anticipitory rebuttals to defend himself with against my own impending rebuttal! Shall I take his bait, as presented here, oh shall I shall I?

You flatter yourself, brah. I never gave you that much thought. You seem obsessed with me, like you love me. I'm flattered, but I could never fuck a dude who likes Kerouac. Sorry, brah.

 

[LickTheStar]

Aw man, there goes my chances too...

And by "slapped together" I really meant "wthout any sort of editing. Some of the other stuff I've read of Kerouac seems like it could have greatly benefited from editing, either on the part of the author, or the publisher, but many of them seem unpolished. Of course, there's some turds that can't be polished (2/3s of his poetry, Visions of Cody, etc. Of course I only read the first 50 pages of Cody before I quit).

Dharma Bums at least felt like it had some sort of editorial hand at work. And I still feel that On The Road was good because, despite the 3 week writing period, it was edited for years before it was ever published.

And yeah a lot of people here aren't fans of many of the Beats in general, or Kerouac specifically. I've never figured out quite why, but... I just kinda keep my Kerouac love to myself most of the time.

 

[mjp]

Aw man, there goes my chances too...

Nah brah, I'll make an exception for you, my sad flower.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Hyperbole my sweet, superior ass. Subterraneans belongs in the garbage because it's unreadable. It reminds me of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, only Subterraneans makes less sense.

Much like ELP, YES and Rush, this is amongst my favorite books. Not just Kerouac books, but books, all time.

It is tough to wrap around because it was written on a roll, or several rolls of toilet paper during a weekend benzedrine binge.

So, have yourself a high-colonic, take a spin to East LA, or wherever it is you kids score your crack these days, and use the TP for its intended purpose: writing.

Seriously, it is a very good book.

 

[Stavrogin]

TheBicycleTragedy - this thread has turned ugly. If you tuck tail and run then fuck you. I'd feel comfort in any room that had Kerouac and Bukowski sitting side by side on the shelf.

 

[mjp]

Much like ELP, YES and Rush, this is amongst my favorite books. Not just Kerouac books, but books, all time.

Oh man, I've done it again. I think you and I only enjoy the same artists when their names start with 'B.' ;)

The important question then is where you stand on Dianetics.

 

[zoom man]

Didn't Jack have a memoir, or a fictionalized account of his life in Paris?,.

No he doesn't, it was Orwell I was thinking of.
Sorry,
Kerouac then, besides OTR,
sucks

 

[BicycleTragedy]

TheBicycleTragedy - this thread has turned ugly. If you tuck tail and run then fuck you. I'd feel comfort in any room that had Kerouac and Bukowski sitting side by side on the shelf.

Nobody's running. I'm just reading these responses privately and marvelling to myself how goddamned closed-minded and uninformed these people are.

No he doesn't, it was Orwell I was thinking of.
Sorry,
Kerouac then, besides OTR,
sucks

Apparently so do your research skills; the book was called Satori in Paris, and it recounts his trip to France to research his Breton ancestry. He never lived there.

And why did you structure your response to yourself as though it were a Bukowski poem? Superfluous line breaks, I mean...in a Buk poem, great. In a forum thread entry? Kind of silly.

 

[Ponder]

;)

 

[zoom man]

Down and Out in Paris and London.
ORWELL, George.

London, Victor Gollancz, 1933, 1933. First Edition, First Impression

And why did you structure your response to yourself as though it were a Bukowski poem?

because I'm a member
of a certain
brah's
cult

 

[james]

bra cult? i'm more of a panty fetishist...

my 2 cents: kerouac was good at times. so was buk (though at a much higher %). so am i. orwell's "down and out in paris and london" is good too. really good. ELP and rush? not so much...
and i'll take east nashville coke over east LA crack anyday...

 

[BicycleTragedy]

Try pages 269 and 311 from Reach for the Sun
and
page 159 from Sifting through the Madness
and
page 278 from Love is a Dog from Hell
then
Last Night of the Earth Poems page 401.

BTW, I really dig Salinger too

Thanks for these references. Speaking of Salinger, have you read the uncollected stories bootleg anthology that is floating around online? I just found it recently but I'm sure this pdf has been around for some time. What are your thoughts on them? Here is the link just in case...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/okoniq

 

[mjp]

I'm just reading these responses privately and marvelling to myself how goddamned closed-minded and uninformed these people are.

Chuckling from on high, as it were. How original.

I'm just going to shut the fuck up now and get out of this thread.

You tease, you.

 

[Bruno Dante]

I'm a fan of Kerouac, I must admit, although I think LTS is definitely onto something when he mentions the lack of editorial control in a lot of his work. Personally I enjoyed 'On The Road', 'Big Sur', 'Pic' and 'The Dharma Bums' although I wasn't so keen on 'The Subterreans' which is pretty pretentious. And I only finished 'Wake Up' because it was so short. Even the stuff I enjoyed I found a bit corny though. It's inevitably dated because of the language used and at times it seems almost like a parody of beatnik culture from a modern viewpoint. At the same time I felt at other moments he touched upon some sort of deep cosmic truth (see, he's even got me doing it now) which is no mean feat.

 

[BicycleTragedy]

Chuckling from on high, as it were. How original.

You tease, you.

Hey mjp, thanks for that link, it was quite interesting and I enjoyed reading it. As for my comment about people being closed-minded, I guess in retrospect it was a bit hasty and unnecessary. I should have better manners, being new here. And it was a blanket statement, not really thought out too well and then poof, there it was on the page. But, oh well. You know how poofs can be.

As for trolls, I once made up story about a little elf named Rottencunt. He looked like a garden gnome but was the parton saint of venereal diseases. Anyway, did you see that clip on YouTube of the alleged troll skipping across the road in Argentina? It was creepy.

As for originality, well, "there is nothing new under the sun," or so sayeth Ecclesiastes.

Let's see, am I leaving anything out...oh yeah, I just got back from an estate sale where I found the second Monkees LP on vinyl. They had Headquarters too, but somebody had already bought it, goddamnit.

I watched Interiors last night, which I thought I'd seen before but no, I hadn't.

 

[hoochmonkey9]

Thanks for these references. Speaking of Salinger, have you read the uncollected stories bootleg anthology that is floating around online? I just found it recently but I'm sure this pdf has been around for some time. What are your thoughts on them? Here is the link just in case...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/okoniq

thanks for the link. I'm a Salinger fan (although I read Catcher too late, I was in my late 30s, but the other stuff really works for me). Kerouac, not so much. ;)

 

[Bruno Dante]

'The Catcher in the Rye' was always one of my all-time favourite books although I feel I may have grown out of it a bit. Being an old fart these days. I read 'Franny and Zooey' for the first time quite recently and I thought it was excellent.

 

[Short Bus]

Perhaps thats it.
Read OTR at 30 and anything else by JK after 30 and you're pretty much shrugging your shoulders saying OK I get it-but so what?-Reading Bukowski at any time and for me especially after 40 and I keep thinking why didn't I know you at 15-my life would be different.
Bukowski's work stays current for me-most likely cause he wrote or had a great deal published right up to his death (see timeline). I look back at Jack and say yeah thanks for the memories...AND GOD IS POOH BEAR

 

[BicycleTragedy]

I read both Catcher and On The Road at 17 for the first time, back to back, and while I think my age definitely played a part in the way those works affected me, I'm not sure if it would be different now, at 33, since both books still hold great meaning for me, particularly Catcher.

I think that Catcher hits so many nails on so many heads that is is hard for it not to resonate into adulthood, provided you don't fall off the cliff, reach for the ring, etc etc...And even though my life has changed dramatically since being 17, that is all external. Inwardly I am exactly the same person, so maybe that's why I still love the book.

I think mainly, as Jimmy Snerp said, a lot of the Kerouac appreciation regards nostalgia for how you felt ORIGINALLY reading him, as a kid or a young adult.

I have only discovered Bukowski less than a year ago, and I think it's good that I found him now, at this age. It's like a whole world opening up. At 17, I'm not sure I would have gotten the work woes, the female woes that are rife in his writing...I'd have understood the contempt for people and the lack of enthusiasm for normal daily life, but I think everything else would have been over my head, then.

I recently read Queer, by Burroughs, who is a writer I've aways been aware of and interested in but only just now actually delved into. I thought Queer was very good, but lacking something...it has sensitivity and the narrative was pretty good but I don't know, he can't seem to NOT come across as a very cold, almost alien kind of person. But the self-loathing and unrequited desire that jumps out from every page is just profound; it definitely gave a new depth to way I looked at Burroughs who up til then I just thought was all cerebral and detached.

I know his other books are not all so straightforward and human...

 

[hoochmonkey9]

don't get me wrong, I like Catcher, I just wish I read it 20+ years earlier.

 

[mjp]

Salinger is a children's writer, good for 15-year-old boys.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Oh, that's what all of you poet laureates say.

 

[Bukfan]

I know his other books are not all so straightforward and human...

Maybe not, but "Junky" and "Interzone" are quite straight forward and both are good reads. I found "Queer" somewhat boring though.

 

[BicycleTragedy]

Salinger is a children's writer, good for 15-year-old boys.

I'll defer to you on that one, as I assume you're an authority on what is good for 15 year old boys.

 

[Bukfan]

Alas, I only know what's good for 15 year old girls. :p

 

[mjp]

I'll defer to you on that one, as I assume you're an authority on what is good for 15 year old boys.

Thanks for taking the bait, sucker. You're making this too easy. It's like shooting pompous twats in a barrel.

---

As for 15 year old boys - maybe one day you'll have a son, then I'll let you know what's good for them.

I'll lure him here with skateboards and Cheetos and there won't be anything you can do about it. He'll be gone to the dark side, and every night you and your mail order bride will cry yourselves to sleep; "Where did we go wrong? Where did we go wrong?"

But don't worry yourself. You didn't go wrong. You just are wrong, and the boy will sense it. He will seek out something real and substantial, and that's when I will be there for him. It may take years to deprogram him after 15 years with the likes of you, but I'm confident it can be done.

Then I'll fuck your mail order bride.

For good measure.

We'll be like a happy family over here. Don't worry, I'll send you a Christmas card. Care of the Griffith YMCA, I assume?

Run along. You are dismissed.

 

[chronic]

mmmmm... cheetos