Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Well, maybe mjp should answer this one, but it's my impression that you can always "revive" an old thread. Happens all the time. They don't die, they just "hibernate"...:D
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New artwork for Bukowski paperbacks
- Thread starter nymark
- Start date
Well, maybe mjp should answer this one, but it's my impression that you can always "revive" an old thread. Happens all the time. They don't die, they just "hibernate"...:D
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
Jordon: Many good points you make. I, too, always felt the City Lights editions were somehow lesser than the Black Sparrows, like they just didn't care enough. Not to say I don't like some of the City Lights covers, I do, but Barbara Martin's designs are superior. You're right; now that they are being replaced, they take on even more of a classic status. It's ironic to think that the first generation of Ecco editions will become collectible for their Martin covers, even though they are inferior productions.
mjp
Founding member
It's fine. A lot of new users resurrect old threads, I know I would if I was reading through all of this now.
At least you are looking at the old threads. Sometimes new users will tend to ask questions that have been thoroughly talked out, and some of the old-timers (if you can be an old timer on a year old forum ;)) stay away from answering, which is understandable. Better to bump an old thread than start a new one that doesn't get much response.
ROC
It is what it is
Daddy... what's a book?
With all the discussions on the varying qualities of books, maybe we missed another possible scenario.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2557653,00.html
(Oh, and my answer would be 'one of the things your mum throws at me when she's angry)
With all the discussions on the varying qualities of books, maybe we missed another possible scenario.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2557653,00.html
(Oh, and my answer would be 'one of the things your mum throws at me when she's angry)
mjp
Founding member
These Chicken Little stories of libraries becoming extinct due to the internet are bullshit. Books aren't going anywhere.
Film was supposed to put an end to live entertainment, and television an end to film, and video games and end to society as we know it. We still have live theater, live music, film, books, and almost half of the teenagers can read, so I think this is all a bit alarmist.
Newspaper and magazine writers, and talking heads on TV news just need something sensational to push, and what's more sensational than the death of culture?
I wouldn't be surprised to see a tease for the 6 o'clock Los Angeles news that said, "Those books in your attic can kill you! Tune in to see what experts say about the dangers of paper and ink, and how your children are at risk."
Yawn.
HenryChinaski
Founding member
not only are the new paper-backs to have generic new covers but also the text will be condensed and the size of the book will be smaller than the black sparrow and earlier ecco ones.
what a gyp for new readers.
p.s. he showed the people at haper/collins this thread. I'm sure they either got a good laugh or were appalled. either way, I'm glad it was brought to their attention.
what a gyp for new readers.
p.s. he showed the people at haper/collins this thread. I'm sure they either got a good laugh or were appalled. either way, I'm glad it was brought to their attention.
I'd sooner see the feux-pulp look than that terrible Factotum film-promotion edition. Christ, those are the fucking worst. Honestly, I'm apathetic about the covers, at best, new covers are the publisher's invitation to a visual artist to comment upon a literary work. At worst, it is an attempt by publishers to create new interest in an old product. I'm surprised they didnt throw in a forward essay, or an appendix exerpting letters or fragments or something that would make owners of the book shell out for a new edition. That being said, when something new comes out, there is the cringe reaction of change- I'm sure you could bash the old covers but since there is a nostalgia to them... that's why I hesitate to bash something new but to consider it. Then again, it is a pity that they got rid of Buk's painting on "Women"- that's his statement, Christ...
HenryChinaski
Founding member
yeah ya know, I never thought about that. instead of doing completely different covers, they should've incorporated something of the original covers with something totally new. I think the end result would have been a lot better. But I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.
mjp
Founding member
I'm sure it won't matter one bit to someone who is newly introduced to his work what the covers of the new editions look like. And imagine how much fun it will be for them to start digging back and discovering the original versions.
They they'll have to come to us, of course, and our eBay auctions with exorbitant, ridiculous opening bids for (previously) common Black Sparrow copies... ;)
They they'll have to come to us, of course, and our eBay auctions with exorbitant, ridiculous opening bids for (previously) common Black Sparrow copies... ;)
HenryChinaski
Founding member
you think Black Sparrow Press publications will become rare sometime?
mjp
Founding member
In another generation, sure. Black Sparrow is gone, so the supply is finite. At some point in the future the number of Ecco editions out there will surpass the number of Black Sparrow editions.
Really, the original versions of something are only desirable to a small minority of readers (I know two people who recently started reading Bukowski; one buys the Ecco versions from Amazon and is perfectly happy with them, the other hunts down Black Sparrow editions on eBay, and refuses to buy the Ecco versions). But that minority will find it more difficult to find a good Black Sparrow version of something than we do now.
The numbers of Ecco editions already outnumber Black Sparrow on eBay...
Really, the original versions of something are only desirable to a small minority of readers (I know two people who recently started reading Bukowski; one buys the Ecco versions from Amazon and is perfectly happy with them, the other hunts down Black Sparrow editions on eBay, and refuses to buy the Ecco versions). But that minority will find it more difficult to find a good Black Sparrow version of something than we do now.
The numbers of Ecco editions already outnumber Black Sparrow on eBay...
HenryChinaski
Founding member
i guess when you think about it, youre really just paying for the words. but i could never see myself getting all hyped up about an ecco version of a bukowski work coming in the mail. after spoiling myself on black sparrow, ecco just seems like a cheap farce or rip off.
There Never has been any American Bukowski-cover as misplaced as the German ones!
(examples here: http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/20963.jpg / http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/12392.jpg / http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/11462.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-15844-3.261144.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-10679-6.240200.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-15843-5.231336.jpg )
Sure, the content should be the most important. But still, I very much appreciate a well done cover. I think this adds to the 'Gesamtkunstwerk'. It certainly is a question of selling, but not only.
Yes, you cannot judge a book by it's cover, but you can judge it's cover by it's cover.
And I prefer having books in my shelf, that are aestetically pleasing or interesting in some way.
Same goes for music: I have refused a long time to buy Tom Waits' Black Rider simply because of it's crabby cover, while Nighthawks at the diner was my first.
So, yes, definitely: The cover of a book IS important. (as well as it's paper, it's typo, etc.) And think of so many people who just look through bookstores with no perticular aim - what are the books they have a second look at? The ones with an interesting first look! So in order to 'gain' people to discover and recognize Bukowski, we should take care of the covers.
btw. in my own oppinion, the first edition of 'Erections' was a phantastic cover! As were the very simple ones by Barbara, like 'Burning in Water'. This suits Bukowski best - either portraits of himself as he, as a person, is very important and stronger related to his work than, say, Dan Brown. Or very simple and plain layout, like some of the classics in literature have.
(examples here: http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/20963.jpg / http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/12392.jpg / http://www.dtv.de/_images/cover192/11462.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-15844-3.261144.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-10679-6.240200.jpg / http://www.fischerverlage.de/sixcms/media.php/15/3-596-15843-5.231336.jpg )
Sure, the content should be the most important. But still, I very much appreciate a well done cover. I think this adds to the 'Gesamtkunstwerk'. It certainly is a question of selling, but not only.
Yes, you cannot judge a book by it's cover, but you can judge it's cover by it's cover.
And I prefer having books in my shelf, that are aestetically pleasing or interesting in some way.
Same goes for music: I have refused a long time to buy Tom Waits' Black Rider simply because of it's crabby cover, while Nighthawks at the diner was my first.
So, yes, definitely: The cover of a book IS important. (as well as it's paper, it's typo, etc.) And think of so many people who just look through bookstores with no perticular aim - what are the books they have a second look at? The ones with an interesting first look! So in order to 'gain' people to discover and recognize Bukowski, we should take care of the covers.
btw. in my own oppinion, the first edition of 'Erections' was a phantastic cover! As were the very simple ones by Barbara, like 'Burning in Water'. This suits Bukowski best - either portraits of himself as he, as a person, is very important and stronger related to his work than, say, Dan Brown. Or very simple and plain layout, like some of the classics in literature have.
Not quite sure, if this is the right thread for it, but:
There were other translaters also. 'Post Office' was done by one Hans Hermann. 'Shakespeare' was done by Rainer Wehlen, who did some stories and poems for anthologies too, as well as the German edition of Locklins 'Bukowski. A sure bet'. The excerpts of 'Erections' that built the German book 'Fuck Machine' was translated by one Wulf Teichmann.
(trivia: The 'Erections' book was split into four seperate volumes for the German market. 'South of No North' split into two parts.) 'Horsemeat' was translated by one Hans Christian Meiser.
All translations use to be very fair, especially the Weissners, of course.
I would even state, concerning the prose there's no Need for a German reader to head for the originals.
In matters of poetry it's different: Though the translations are also very good, the athmosphere of the originals adds up to them very much. I wouldn't want to miss the German versions in many cases, but the originals have a certain quality, you can't catch in translation. Esp. when you have Buk's own voice in your inner ear while reading.
The Buk-society has approximately 50 members at the moment.
There were other translaters also. 'Post Office' was done by one Hans Hermann. 'Shakespeare' was done by Rainer Wehlen, who did some stories and poems for anthologies too, as well as the German edition of Locklins 'Bukowski. A sure bet'. The excerpts of 'Erections' that built the German book 'Fuck Machine' was translated by one Wulf Teichmann.
(trivia: The 'Erections' book was split into four seperate volumes for the German market. 'South of No North' split into two parts.) 'Horsemeat' was translated by one Hans Christian Meiser.
All translations use to be very fair, especially the Weissners, of course.
I would even state, concerning the prose there's no Need for a German reader to head for the originals.
In matters of poetry it's different: Though the translations are also very good, the athmosphere of the originals adds up to them very much. I wouldn't want to miss the German versions in many cases, but the originals have a certain quality, you can't catch in translation. Esp. when you have Buk's own voice in your inner ear while reading.
The Buk-society has approximately 50 members at the moment.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
You have been lucky with all the translators. I wish I could say the same for our translators. They are ok, I guess, but not real good. You're also lucky to have that many books translated. And you're right, the original texts are the best. A translation will always be inferior, that's why I prefer to buy Buk books in english. It's cheaper too. Books are very expensive here.
50 members? I would have thought you had more members in such a big country. On the other hand, I've never heard of a Buk society anywhere else, so that's an achievement in it self!...
50 members? I would have thought you had more members in such a big country. On the other hand, I've never heard of a Buk society anywhere else, so that's an achievement in it self!...
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Right. We'd be much happier with more members. The Goethe-Society has 3500!
On the other hand: even the Alfred Doeblin-Society has only 100, the Brothers Grimm-Society only 380! - and these guys have NAMES! The Sartre-Society in Germany has, sit down first: also only 50! Frank Wedekind-Society: 50. Walter Benjamin-Society: 120. etcetc.
It's not always easy to gain members, when you're not into Schiller, Goethe or Wilhelm Busch.
(Paying members that is. We once had around 80 but half of them never payed the regular fee; we couldn't afford to give them the Yearbooks for free any longer - the few really active persons in the Society pay in much more than the regular fee, due to their additional costs when working on things anyway. We're not able to even pay the cost for printing and shipping to so-called members who don't give a fuck. And organizing the symposiums in Andernach isn't cheap either. Think of travelling- and residental-cost for invited addressing-guests alone!)
I've heared from the manager of the 'Arbeitsgemeinschaft Literarische Gesellschaften' (www.alg.de), which is the association of literary societies in Germany (nearly all lit-societies here are members of them. I know only of one, the Nietzsche-society, that isn't), that We are much more ACTIVE than a lot of the bigger ones. So, concerning our small resources, we can be proud of our work so far, I think.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Wow! I did'nt know you had all these lit. societies. Impressing! And you even have a society for all the lit. societies!
Oh yes, you have every right to be proud of what you have achieved. That's actually quite a lot, I think.
Maybe one day there will be an international Buk society...
Oh yes, you have every right to be proud of what you have achieved. That's actually quite a lot, I think.
Maybe one day there will be an international Buk society...
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Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Well, that remains to be seen...Maybe international symposiums, Publishing different kinds of Buk related material, creating databases etc. If you use your imagination I'm sure lots of possibilities will pop up. And you can always look into what other lit. societies do. Actually it was just an idea that popped up...
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ROC
It is what it is
Sorry Bukfan, I didn't mean to be snippy. It's just that I imagine it would be embarrassing being a buk fan in a room full of Buk fans - I mean what's there to talk about?
Of course getting material published might be good... as long as it's not Buk wannabes ripping off their hero. An updated, online biblio would be something a body like this could handle.
Oh and it's symposia... one of my favorite odd words! :)
Of course getting material published might be good... as long as it's not Buk wannabes ripping off their hero. An updated, online biblio would be something a body like this could handle.
Oh and it's symposia... one of my favorite odd words! :)
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Embarrassing? I don't think the german society would agree to that...:)
If you are a member of fan club or a stamp collectors club, then you talk about your common interest of course, that's the whole point (or one of the points). There's nothing better than meeting people who share your interest. It's the same thing that's happening in this forum. Here you are in a "room" full of Buk fans...
End of sermon - Amen...:D
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Sure, there are always things that you would do in another way.
But in the whole (butt in the hole??), they've done it very proper.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Hi,
I guess that the new ECCO covers are a done deal. Please see the Maxim post...
Bill
I guess that the new ECCO covers are a done deal. Please see the Maxim post...
Bill
ROC
It is what it is
Not really. The important difference online is that one can ignore 95% of what is discussed and only address those topics that interest you. If I had to wait for these things to be discussed in real time in a real room full of people, I would go insane.
The other factor that would really bother me is the power-play and politics that come about when you have a room full of people.
Online I get to preserve my privacy, my solitude and my sanity.
Just this little black ducks opinion.
Will Factotum also be suited with a new cover?
(besides the Matt Dillon one)
(besides the Matt Dillon one)
HenryChinaski
Founding member
my pal at ecco said that eventually they'll probably let him design a new cover to fit in with the other three new ones.