Nobody's PERFECT!

theeffects

theeffects

Curious (be honest) what readers/collectors were disapointed with...

First from the stand point of the 'writing', I'll give you mine; COME ON IN! For me it's the 'weakest' collection to date (I thought they were saving the best for last!?...)

Secondly production wise (covers, overall quality of book, etc...). I don't like the cover to OPEN ALL NIGHT, looks cheap, not a strong cover. Also the obvious, the production qualtiy/paper selection of BSP vs ECCO (no contest!).

Thoughts?
 
cirerita

cirerita

Founding member
Most posthumous books are pretty weak, mostly because Martin relied heavily on the 70's unpublished/uncollected stuff -to me the weakest POETRY period by B.
I think the last book by Ecco -The People Look Like Flowers at Last- will be better because there are quite a few poems from the 60's -not my favourite period either, but better than the 70's for sure.
 
theeffects

theeffects

The problem I have with the last few is the build-up that the BEST was saved for last... That John Martin had been holding onto the cream of the crop for the final 5 releases. That just hasn't been the case.
 
theeffects

theeffects

I optimistically await THE PEOPLE LOOK LIKE FLOWERS AT LAST, it's still a bit of a wait (April 2007). Strange to think that's 'it'... but I have a 'feeling' ECCO/Harper will uncover, discover more 'lost', 'unpublished', etc.. poems.
Now let's get back to disappointments, not everything has to be positive!!! Where did you get let down by BUK or those that put out BUK???
 
HenryChinaski

HenryChinaski

Founding member
disappointments? the proof is in the pudding. I'd have to say the book I'm most disappointed in would be the posthumous books ecco put out just because they're predictable. plus it pisses me off that they use they same exact picture of the author for the biography page over and over again. YOU TELLIN ME THEY CAN'T MIX IT UP A BIT? plus the pages just feel like a stiff wind would blow them to smitherines!
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
You're all going to think I'm crazy, but as far as presentation is concerned, the LouJon books (It Catches My Heart In Its Hands, Crucifix in a Deathhand) are my least favorite.

They are like precious works of ART to be appreciated only under proper conditions. Bah. The production makes the poetry seem like an afterthought, a necessary evil needed to fill up the pretty pages. Had there been additional printings with normal bindings later on, the initial over-the-top releases would have their place as the "collector's items," and the normal issue as "the ones you actually read." As it is, they are off-putting. Any time someone who appreciates Bukowski is at my place I naturally want them to see the older stuff, but when I put Crucifix down in front of them, they are afraid to touch it. That defeats the purpose of a book, in my opinion.

Content-wise, I would have to say that Bukowski started to lose me when the poems

became
like
this.

What would
have
taken
up
maybe
a line
or
two

in
his
earlier
days

now
takes
up
two pages.

I know that many people consider this to be the period when he mastered his craft and whittled the poems down to their raw essence. I just don't happen to be in that camp.

To me he was a storyteller, and the short lines of the later years only tell small parts of the story.
 
cirerita

cirerita

Founding member
I think the period you mention covers 1985-1989 only. I really love the 1990-1992 period, when he got back to the longer line but with a more "poetic", wise approach to it.
 
theeffects

theeffects

Good eye!
You are right that 'style' definitely increased in the later years. Some may say 'less is more', I tend to agree there was more MEAT (and substance) to early books. Having said that, you can sure get through the ECCO stuff pretty quickly, quick reads! The Loujon Press items I'm afraid to open, so from a READING point of view I agree with you. They are expensive and worth a good deal of money, so they don't tend to make good 'reading' copies. I do (as I'm sure you do as well) APPRECIATE the craft and work that went into those publications, the paper selections were/are incredible. The Noel Rockmore etchings do very little for me, doesn't compliment Bukowski's writing style (in my humble opinion, i.e. MEANS NOTHING, so don't get PISSY for me critiquing!)
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
I'm with you on the Rockmore stuff not jiving with Bukowski at all. Crucifix is not a pretty book. To my eyes.

I appreciate the work that went into the LouJon books only because I do letterpress myself, so I know what's involved. But as far as the different papers and the layout of the books - they just don't do it for me.

It's like putting circus clown makeup on a beautiful woman. It's just wrong. ;)
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
I just got an advance copy of "The People Look Like Flowers At Last".

I'll crack into it tonight and send a report...


Best,
Bill
 
Rekrab

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
mjp said:
You're all going to think I'm crazy, but as far as presentation is concerned, the LouJon books (It Catches My Heart In Its Hands, Crucifix in a Deathhand) are my least favorite.
Click to expand...

mjp, yes, we all think you're crazy, but you make some good points about the Loujon books. I've never actually read my copy of Crucifix cover to cover -- it's too stiff, too precious. When I want to read those poems, I go to the BSP collection they're in (if I can remember which one it is). I, too, never cared much for the Noel Rockmore etchings. I love the damned wraparound band on the book, though. And seeing Buk's words in letterpress is always a thrill. I like your idea that there should have been cheap, regular editions of the Loujon books. Not only would they make good reading copies, but they probably would have sold enough copies to subsidize the limited edition. I guess Webb wasn't a great businessman.
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
Yes, it is an advance proof. I'm on page 23 and it is very good so far. Some older oned that I have read like "I live too near the slaughterhouse".

Mostly poems like this.

not
so
much
like
this.

So far, I give it a very positive review. More as I read more....

Bill
 
Evas

Evas

I was disappointed with the cover of "Septuagenarian Stew" - it looks like the hack job of some drip graphic designer who's got 'til 5 o'clock to come up with the goods.

I also have a love/hate thing with the cover of "The Night Torn Mad." Does anyone know where the photograph comes from?

On reflection - I think it's quite good. I think it's great, actually. I do, though, prefer "artwork" to photographs.
 
nymark

nymark

As long as we're talking about covers, the cover for The People Look Like Flowers At Last is pretty gruesome. In her defense, Barbara Martin has designed THOUSANDS of book covers. They can't all be works of art, folks.
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi Mark,
The book lists Cassandra J. Pappas as the designer. It does not specify that this was for the cover, but I had heard that Barbara was not designing any more books.

Best,
Bill
 
cirerita

cirerita

Founding member
the story I heard when BSP sold his B catalog to Ecco was that Martin would edit the poems and Barbara design the covers, but I could be wrong...
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
John Martin did edit the book, but it seems that Barbara did not design it. I read an article about Barbara in a graphic design magazine. I seem to recall that John was not able to talk her into designing any more covers.

She could sure design a stunning cover.

Best,
Bill
 
nymark

nymark

Bill, I have the ARC but didn't bother to check the credits on the cover. My bad. I am glad to hear that Barbara was not responsible for the design. What do you think of it? Disregard my comments and tell me what you think.

I couldn't find a copy of the design mag you referenced. I went to several newsstands here in the NYC and came up empty. Is the article posted online? Barbara's body of work is pretty amazing when you look at the totality of what she did. Remember, she was not only designing the Bukowski covers, but ALL the BSP covers.
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi Nymark,
I'm not into the cover. It has a bit of a Matisse look to it. I would rank it as one of my least favorite covers. That being said, the poems are strong. A really great collection so far. Nothing about this book makes me think that I'll be anything but pleased by the whole book. I have read the random poem and they all seem damn fine.

Yes, you are right. Barbara designed all BSP books. It is really amazing. Some are better than others, but the body of work that she created is amazing.

The info about the article on Barbara Martin is as follows:

On pp. 106-111 of the September/October (2005) issue of PRINT
magazine there is a very nice article about Barbara
and the nearly 1000 book covers she designed for Black
Sparrow over a period of 30 years. A number of covers
are illustrated in living color! And the text is, of
course, very complementary. (Warning: the magazine costs $20.)

I went to Borders and sat down and read the article, being too much of a cheap ass to buy a $20 magazine. It is a good read and I'd buy one on ebay (They show up from time to time.....

Best,
Bill
 
Rekrab

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
You lucky guys with advance copies! Maybe my wife can snag me one (she works in a bookstore). Glad to hear it is a strong collection, and includes older poems. Good to end on a high note like this, although I have a feeling there will be many more Buk collections in the future as miscellaneous "lost" work is rounded up. And why not? As long as people want to buy it, they'll sell it. I'm like that when it comes to favorite authors; I'll read their shopping lists. It all is of interest -- biographically, if the literary value isn't there. The completists will always buy a new title by their favorite author. There'll be more, from other publishers if not Ecco.
 
cirerita

cirerita

Founding member
the body of GOOD unpublished/uncollected poems amounts to another 3-4 books. sadly, the body of BAD unpublished/uncollected poems amounts to another 3-4 books :D
 
theeffects

theeffects

bospress.net said:
The info about the article on Barbara Martin is as follows:

On pp. 106-111 of the September/October (2005) issue of PRINT
magazine there is a very nice article about Barbara
and the nearly 1000 book covers she designed for Black
Sparrow over a period of 30 years. A number of covers
are illustrated in living color! And the text is, of
course, very complementary. (Warning: the magazine costs $20.)Bill
Click to expand...

Bill,
do u mean SEPT/OCT 2006?
 
bospress.net

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
Nope, 2005. It was a year ago. Now would be the time to snag one on ebay. At 19.95 for the issue on the newstands, I could not bring myself to buy one.

Best,
Bill (cheap-ass) Roberts
Long Live the Guerilla Poetics Project!
 
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