Random Thoughts that relate to Bukowski in some way

Black Swan

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
My favorite Céline's is Death on the Installment Plan, which let you know a lot about his childhood. It is fiction but it does reveal a lot about his upbringing, his parents' values and his apprenticeship. I would compare it to Bukowski's Ham of Rye, gone weird. I love that book.
 
Short Bus

Short Bus

I saw a bluebird today-first one I have ever seen. I saw it while riding my bike along the grand river trail system up her in Canada. Pretty cool bird just sitting on the path. I stopped the bike and thought. I have to write this on that random thought thread...and now I have.
 
Skygazer

Skygazer

And in the end...
Agreed. The people in it seem so shallow and superficial, whichever woman he happened to be with at the time, both he and the woman seemed to have one eye open in case someone/thing better came along.

I know it was meant to be a bit of a cynical sexual romp but it didn't work for me, it was like "Confessions of a Faintly Surprised Middle-Aged Writer on Becoming a Babe Magnet". However I was glad that he got all that after the shitty adolescence and young adulthood, what saves it is the self deprecation.It's ridiculous but my favourite line from the whole book is away at the start, he is on a plane going to a reading: "The flight captain announced himself, if I heard correctly, as Captain Winehead. When the stewardess came by I ordered another drink..." I burst out laughing at that, it still makes me laugh, I love his dry sense of humour.But yes, not my favourite book.
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
Skygazer said:
I know it was meant to be a bit of a cynical sexual romp...
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It was?

If you find the characters "shallow and superficial," you must have the same complaint about every one of his novels and short stories. I don't believe that was accidental, or lack of writing skill. The detachment is necessary to much of the work.

And far from cynicism, I think what he was going for in Women was absurdity (like much of his humor), and he achieved it.
 
Skygazer

Skygazer

And in the end...
mjp said:
It was?

If you find the characters "shallow and superficial," you must have the same complaint about every one of his novels and short stories.
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No, I don't, I didn't find that in Ham on Rye about his childhood (my favourite) or in Post Office about work.
I do think he is very cynical about women in the book and with good reason, but he is like a kid let loose in a sweet shop, there's the episodes when he is sneaking off to meet Nicole telling 'Lydia' he's away to the supermarket etc. It's just one long conveyor belt of opportunism on both sides that's why, I refer to it as a cynical sex romp and a bit empty. perhaps he thought all the new found attention a bit empty too. In the intro to the book he is quoted in a letter to his friend A.D Winans "I may get killed on this one.It's written as some type of high-low comedy and I look worse than anybody, but they're only going to think about how I painted them" (some cynicism there?) "However it's a jolly roaring blast". I love his self deprecating humour and his ability to point out the absurd, but I just didn't love this book, that's all.
 
5:28am

5:28am

mjp said:
I don't believe that was accidental, or lack of writing skill. The detachment is necessary to much of the work.
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That's why Factotum is so fascinating.

Chinaski's inner existence isn't exposed to us. We have to infer what's going on inside of him. A great example is when he's drinking port wine and it tastes so awful he imagines himself watching a movie about a woman's legs. It's a very funny scene but it also raises a deeper question of why Chinaski feels compelled to keep drinking.

Chinaski became emotional a few times in Women. It didn't seem to fit his character or the overall story.
 
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Bruno Dante

Bruno Dante

It's a different Chinaski in Women though. His whole situation has changed due to his relative fame and popularity. I find it more realistic, not less, that he behaves differently to the guy in Post Office and Factotum (not to mention Ham on Rye). Having said that, I prefer all of those novels to Women. That's not to say I didn't enjoy the latter. It still beats the shit out of most of the competition.
 
skiroomalum

skiroomalum

Women reminds me of the better comic writings of Philip Roth. Very straightforward with no one spared humiliation. Women is in every way a 1970's novel for better or worse. Feels a bit dated to me in a way that none of other novels do but is still a great laugh.
 
Danny Mac

Danny Mac

Rekrab said:
When I mow, I always leave a few blades of grass sticking up, in honor of Bukowski.
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This is an awesome idea. Really great. I am going to start to do this too.

5:28am said:
Finally started reading Women. I can't help but wonder if the library's missing Bukowski titles have been given counterfeit signatures and are now listed on ebay for $400.
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I saw some copies of Crucifix in a Death Hand for $400 and more on Amazon. It does make you paranoid when you have to pay that much for something you can't see first before you buy it. I have bought some good stuff, even used first editions of things for 20 to 30 dollars on Amazon and they were in very good condition just as advertised. So it's not all bad. Once I get a full time job again I plan on buying some of the "FANCY Stuff."
 
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Danny Mac

Danny Mac

I have two great lines from "Absence of the Hero" I've got to share. From "Bukowski on Bukowski," 'Until then, read your nuts off and gobble and grow what you can.' Another great line from "Untitled Essay on DA Levy," 'My heart heaves out the belly of itself.'
 
Skygazer

Skygazer

And in the end...
5:28am said:
Chinaski became emotional a few times in Women. It didn't seem to fit his character or the overall story.
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Don't you think that's what redeems him, stops him being a callous womaniser? Thanksgiving Day - he's got himself in a mess, with plans to see three of them (Debra,Iris ans Sara) he starts crying as his conscience comes to the fore, you need that balance, along with the more comic episodes. It's when he shows guilt and remorse that saves it, although it is very funny when he manages to do both; the part where he offers up: "I am innocent in my fashion,Lydia, I thought. I am faithful to thee in my fashion." It's a very funny line because he knows and we know he's about to be unfaithful to her (imminently) and to all of them until finally he starts a relationship with Sara (for which I am strangely relieved and happy)
 
growing beard

growing beard

Skygazer said:
... "I am innocent in my fashion,Lydia, I thought. I am faithful to thee in my fashion." It's a very funny line because he knows and we know he's about to be unfaithful to her ...
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I'm not sure you've quite picked up on the meaning of the words 'innocent' and 'faithful' as Bukowski uses them. Words mean different, deeper things to him than to the average joe (or jane). Could be that hee is always innocent and faithful because he is sincerely compassionate, sincerely caring. There are passages about it in some of his interviews. For most people being 'faithful' means basically being a dog - no matter what the other person does, you will follow them around and enable them to be an idiot. For Bukowski it seems to be more about compassion (which can actually be tough love, too, or distance). No sense tying yourself to a sinking ship - if Bukowski had done that with previous women, he never would have gotten to know Linda Lee, possibly never would have had the creative spark left for the 80s. Instead he went on to make three or four more awesome books of poetry, despite living a shacked up and almost bourgeois life in the hills - not an easy thing to do, and he did it, in part, by not misplacing his loyalty.
 
Skygazer

Skygazer

And in the end...
growing beard said:
Words mean different, deeper things to him than to the average joe (or jane).
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My ass they do. On delivering that line, he is in bed with Nicole having arrived the night before, very drunk .The meaning of it is very clear and comical.But perhaps I'm too pragmatic and not seeing the more, er, metaphysical aspects.
 
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growing beard

growing beard

I could totally be mistaken there. No, I haven't been to southern california at all since beginning to read Bukowski. My memory could be failing me. I felt that I recalled him referring to 'living in the hills.' Now that you called me out on it, maybe I'm confusing different stories - maybe that reference to 'the hills' was from his run-in with a wealthy lady in Barfly? What is San Pedro like? As for the almost bourgeois part, he did start driving the bmw and eating quality food...

Skygazer said:
... perhaps I'm too pragmatic ...
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The word I would use is superficial, but not in general, just on this topic (and the one about how much you love the creature comfort spoils of WWII :rollfool:). Behind the surface of being drunk and/or passing out and/or sex-romping, we ARE still talking about a guy who obviously CARED about people - the fact that they wore him out notwithstanding.
 
mjp

mjp

Founding member
Having lived there for the better part of a decade, I can only laugh when people talk about Bukowski selling out for the plush, glamorous life in San Pedro. The Hollywood Hills it ain't. Especially near the Port of Los Angeles, where he lived.

As for Women, I think both of you just may be over analyzing it. Like professors dissecting a joke over lemonade and toast points until it isn't funny anymore.
 
jwicks

jwicks

bospress.net said:
I can't mow my lawn without thinking of Hank Sr. kneeling down to look for stray blades of unmowed grass.
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I've been landscaping my yard the last few weeks and I too think of Ham On Rye references when I'm out there working and or mowing that damn yard! I'd be getting an ass whooping every time! Funny!
 
Skygazer

Skygazer

And in the end...
growing beard said:
. Instead he went on to make three or four more awesome books of poetry, despite living a shacked up and almost bourgeois life in the hills - not an easy thing to do, and he did it, in part, by not misplacing his loyalty.
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gb: I'm sorry to always burst your dreamy world view, honestly, I'll stop. Before I do, don't you think that it was because of rather than despite "going off to lead a bourgeois life" with Linda Lee that enabled him to produce more work, if he'd stayed on the course he was on he would have died of alcoholic liver disease, he may not have wanted to settle down and commit, but it was the right decision. I know you seem to have him up on a pedestal, but he was a man first and a poet second. Again, sorry if I hurt you.
 
Danny Mac

Danny Mac

I just went digging thru my small stack of Buk books over here but I couldn't find the poem I was looking for. I just saw it a few weeks ago from the Redondo Beach reading. I think it is called the 'Poetry Reading' but I could be wrong. It is the poem where he talks about how he has a big house that is half paid off, has a big back yard, with friut trees, a big vegetable garden, 6 cats, a beautiful woman, etc. You can tell that Buk is a happy guy. So although San Pedro might not be that much of a beautiful place, he himself has a really nice house and yard. If you also take into consideration that he lived parts of his life on Skid Row or on the outskirts of Skid Row, this house he has now is like a paradise to him.
 
Pogue Mahone

Pogue Mahone

Officials say drugs may have played a part
Honestly, my random is I just like to be alone and at the same time want and need a female mate. I am as confused about it as Bukowsi was till the day he died, but at the end of the day I feel better alone. This is coming up because my girlfriend is in Montana. And even though I am watching her dog, there is so much more oxegen in the room - despite the fact that my girlfriend barely talks...
 
skiroomalum

skiroomalum

Had some down time yesterday and re-read Dangling for the first time in years. I don't know, but it might be his most
cohesive and satisfying book. Nearly every poem worked for me. Then watched a netflix with the wife and slept through
the night. One of those good days.
 
Ponder

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Dangling is also my favorite. Probably not high in the ranking...
Couldn't resist to check it out: http://bukowski.net/bookranking/

Oh- Gerry Locklin's review --->http://americanbookreview.org/issueContent.asp?id=149

Danny Mac said:
I think it is called the 'Poetry Reading' but I could be wrong. It is the poem where he talks about how he has a big house that is half paid off, has a big back yard, with friut trees, a big vegetable garden, 6 cats, a beautiful woman, etc. .
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And a young boy who writes my stuff now...
 
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Pogue Mahone

Pogue Mahone

Officials say drugs may have played a part
I find it slightly ironic that every time I sell a Bukowski item, I am inadvertently supporting the Post Office… Not to mention going through the pain of going to the Post Office…
 
Gary Eisenberg

Gary Eisenberg

RIP
Danny Mac said:
although San Pedro might not be that much of a beautiful place, he himself has a really nice house and yard. If you also take into consideration that he lived parts of his life on Skid Row or on the outskirts of Skid Row, this house he has now is like a paradise to him.
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I remember going to the house to interview Linda in conjunction with the CSULB Fante conference in 1995 (that's a long story that I'll save for another post). I could easily see why Buk loved his new life there, particularly since I, too, had lived in East Hollywood at the same time as he did. There is simply no comparison. Carlton Way...de Longpre Avenue...nothing remotely pastoral about those places. His place in San Pedro was (and probably still is) rich with foliage and felt very private. A well-deserved coda for a man who suffered so much during his life.
 
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