Roominghouse Madrigals

[Pogue Mahone]

I am still not convinced that the poems included in this book were not edited to some extent by Martin. I don't have the time or energy to do a line-by-line comparison to the originals -- and I don't think Buk did either at the time. And how could he -- even if he wanted to? The internet did not exist.

This book just doesn't pass the sniff test for me. I thought a lot of the poems were soft when I read the book the first and the second time.

Mind you, I could be completely wrong -- the sniff test still needs further enhancements and limited user-group releases by Google.

But something just doesn't feel right.

Mike

 

[mjp]

Those poems are all so old that we don't have manuscripts. But we probably have some of the original mag appearances around here. It's hard to tell sometimes with the early poems. He threw a lot of things we might find "uncharacteristic" into them.

 

[zobraks]

There are a couple of examples in these forums of something fishy going on in The Roominghouse Madrigals. Like this one. Or this one.

 

[Andreas]

The Madrigals contain 139 poems. I've found 23 scans and references to original mag appearances in the database/forum. If you own certain periodicals and chapbooks you will be able to compare a lot more poems, but the result would be pretty much the same I guess: The vast majority of these "early selected poems" had been changed.
Only 2 of the above mentioned 23 poems remained unchanged, Layover and A Conversation on Morality, Eternity and Copulation. In six(!) of them the title was altered. Some of the poems are seriously damaged, such as An Empire of Coins, 22,000 Dollars in 3 Months and The Night they took Whitey. Sometimes the changes don't seem to be serious. Unfortunately, the replacement of a single word can make a big difference; a perfect example is I Cannot Stand Tears.
You can also see typical Martin-patterns, his constant attempt to alleviate Bukowski's language: "anus" became "arm" (Friendly Advice to a lot of Young Men), "I shit myself" turned into "I kid myself" (A Kind of Lecture on a dull Day when there isn't even a Fly around to kill), and lines like "in a sense we needn't quiz the radiant aspect of Catholic funerals" (The Night they took Whitey) were simply removed.
There are more examples, I've mentioned only some of them.

 

[PhillyDave]

grrrrrr!!!!!!

 

[Andreas]

Can somebody tell me if this is the same version of One Night Stand as in 'On Love'?

 

[mjp]

It is.

I'm pretty sure Abel went back to the oldest source he could find (magazine appearances or manuscripts) rather than using the Black Sparrow versions.

You can see the first page of the On Love version in the Amazon preview...

 

[PhillyDave]

love that one.

 

[Andreas]

So do I.
The beginning is kind of fucked up in the Black Sparrow version.

 

[Andreas]

I've found another reference to an original mag appearance. It's from the book 'Art, Survival and so Forth' and considers the poem O we are the outcasts. Bear in mind that the book is written in 2000:

"Bukowski's poems in Ole have been mostly reprinted by Black Sparrow in variant versions. Words such as 'bung-hole' and 'cock' are curiously cut out (a literal emasculation), presumably self-censored by Bukowski when he sent material off to John Martin. If so, he also removed rhythm and pungency from, for instance, an entertaining satirical blast at his fellow little maggers in 'O we are the outcasts, O we burn in wondrous flame' (Ole #4). Here is the original opening:

ah, christ, what a bung-hole crew:
more
poetry, always more
P O E T R Y.

if it doesn't come, squeeze it out with a
laxative, get your name in LIGHTS,
get it up there in
81/2 x 11 mimeo.

keep it coming like a miracle
cock."

So far Jules Smith. The Black Sparrow version not only lacks the words "bung-hole" and "cock", but also half of the title. In addition to that "squeeze" has been replaced by "coax". And this is just the opening of the poem, a very long one, by the way.
I feel like trashing this collection.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

One of the most eye-opening things I learned from Debritto's book is that Dorbin (not Martin) edited The Days Run Away Like Horses Over the Hills. Which explains A LOT. Although Martin did have a heavy hand. Buy the book to learn more.

 

[zobraks]

One of the most eye-opening things I learned from Debritto's book is that Dorbin (not Martin) edited The Days Run Away Like Horses Over the Hills.

You could have learned the same thing by reading stuff on The Forum.

Buy the book

You can't stop rubbing it in... :aerb::fog: *sigh*

 

[Andreas]

...Dorbin (not Martin) edited The Days Run Away Like Horses Over the Hills

That's why The Days Run Away... is probably one of the most legit Black Sparrow collections.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You can't stop rubbing it in

Sorry Zobraks, no more pitching. Just trying to give credit to the right person (not myself).

One other thing cirerita/Debritto points out in his book is that there was a one-sentence thank you from Bukowski to Dorbin in the first printings of the book, but this was subsequently removed. Ego, ego, ego...

That's why The Days Run Away... is probably one of the most legit Black Sparrow collections.

Exactly. The concept for the two books is exactly the same. But Days Run Away becomes and instant classic and Madrigals gets mixed reviews.

 

[mjp]

From 1983...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is why I credit other people...

Thanks, gave my later copy to my sister-in-law when she visited last month.