Johannes
Founding member
Second from left in the bottom row, right? Would be the shit, if true!
You are a hit, Petey!
The mystery of Jane C. Cooney (Baker)
- Thread starter Petey
- Start date
Second from left in the bottom row, right? Would be the shit, if true!
You are a hit, Petey!
Petey
RIP
Yep, there is no logic in the sequence of the names under the picture, so we have just the chance to compare the look.
mjp
Founding member
Nice detective work, Petey.
Funny that she was on the debate team. I'm sure that training served her well in dealing with Bukowski. ;)
I edited the pictures displayed in your post, but left your original files there for downloading.
Funny that she was on the debate team. I'm sure that training served her well in dealing with Bukowski. ;)
I think there may be a little more detective work needed. The second girl in the first row parts her hair over her left eye, but in the known picture of Jane from that yearbook she parts her hair over her right eye. That's not something that would likely change from day to day, so maybe you have to look at the girls with the right side part to try to find Jane...
I edited the pictures displayed in your post, but left your original files there for downloading.
Petey
RIP
I did all my research from my desk in Germany but my contacts in the U.S. are still digging for more.
The " Sounes photo " is from 1927 and the " new one " is from 1926 so maybe she changed her look of the hair in this year.
But you are right , there a still some doubts...
@ -to the ladies on the forum we need your input here !
Bukowski described Jane's face in his unpublished novel Streetwalker as "roundish", which is confirmed by the Sounes photo. The face of the girl you are pointing at looks pretty oval. My guess would be the second lady at the bottom in the picture too, but the second from the right.
Skygazer
And in the end...
I think it's the girl dead centre too, same shape face, her hair is slighter thicker and longer, although she's at a different angle, her eyes are the same; a bit deep set and same shape mouth, but it's more her pose it just looks the same.
What a wonderful photo to find Petey!:) well done. Even if she isn't in there.
What a wonderful photo to find Petey!:) well done. Even if she isn't in there.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/5490011//
Birth announcement for Jane's daughter.
As a weird aside, I went to a military high school in Roswell (long story)and remembered
the Roswell Daily Record. Not sure, but my info may be redundant.
Birth announcement for Jane's daughter.
As a weird aside, I went to a military high school in Roswell (long story)and remembered
the Roswell Daily Record. Not sure, but my info may be redundant.
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mjp
Founding member
These would be my guess too. One of them. Even though the part in the hair is on the other side for the second from the right, she seems the girl most likely. Or one of them. Hard to say with the reproduction of that photo...
Petey
RIP
Thanks all for the input. Maybe I was irritated from the legs...:wb: You see want you want to see...
It's realy tough to solve this without any contemporary witness in an accurate way without speculation.
I found the birth announcement as well before, but thanks anyway it's a cute part of the whole puzzle.
By the way I sent my favorite Jane poems to the superintendent of Roswell High School, and made the suggestion to use them in the english classes.
I think the students would like the idea because Jane was one of them.
Would be cool as hell if this will be happen. I could see Jane and B. laughing their asses of ....
It's realy tough to solve this without any contemporary witness in an accurate way without speculation.
I found the birth announcement as well before, but thanks anyway it's a cute part of the whole puzzle.
By the way I sent my favorite Jane poems to the superintendent of Roswell High School, and made the suggestion to use them in the english classes.
I think the students would like the idea because Jane was one of them.
Would be cool as hell if this will be happen. I could see Jane and B. laughing their asses of ....
Petey
RIP
For the records some historical facts , I received this mail today from : Artesia Historical Museum and Art Center. ( Artesia was the home town from Craig Baker.)
"Our City of Artesia received your request for records for Jane Cooney and Craig Baker, and it’s been forwarded here to our local museum. I have found some information, although no formal marriage/birth/death certificates are available. We don’t have any photographs of Jane or Craig, or any other materials in our collection.
Craig Kinsinger Baker was the son of an early Artesia physician, Dr. Perry Baker and his wife Maggie. (They came to Artesia, New Mexico in 1905) Craig was born in Artesia, New Mexico on September 5, 1907. Dr. Perry died in 1924. I can’t find any records of Craig and Jane’s marriage(s), but by 1930 he and Jane were boarding in Pennsylvania, where Craig was working as a civil engineer for the state highway department. Later in 1930, they were in St. Louis, Mississippi, where their son Joe Craig was born on August 16, 1930. In 1931 the family was living in Roswell, New Mexico, where their daughter Adele Mary was born on November 24, 1931. Craig was still living in Roswell in 1935, and made several trips to Puerto Rico/South America in the late 1930s—perhaps for civil engineering work? I found no further mentions of Craig after 1940.
Jane Cooney was harder to track down! She was born in Roswell, New Mexico in 1910. Interestingly, her father was also a physician-Dr. Daniel Cooney. Her mother was Mary R. Cooney. Jane’s father died on September 19, 1919 in Roswell and is buried there. Jane and her mother were still living in Roswell in the 1920s, but I don’t find any mention of Jane after 1927 when she was in high school.
At some point before 1951, Joe dropped the “e” from his first name, and went by “Jo” for the rest of his life. He married Barbara J. Clifton on October 6, 1951 in California. Joe died on February 12, 2007 and is buried in Denver, Colorado.
Adele went by several different names during her lifetime: Adele Mary Garrett-1967; Adele Mary Syvertson-1969; Adele Mary Morris-1971; Adele M. Barry-later in 1971; Adele M. Syvertson-1983. I don’t know if these last names reflect multiple marriages or not. She died on July 6, 2000.
I hope that this information helps to fill out your files—I’m an admirer of Charles Bukowski, and “Barfly” is one of my all-time favorite movies—I never dreamed that there was a local connection there!"
The last chapter made my fucking day .....
In addional I found this in : Albuquerque morning Journal, 10 June 1917.
So Jane had two sisters and one brother, she was the youngest family member, this is verified with the census of population as well.
"Our City of Artesia received your request for records for Jane Cooney and Craig Baker, and it’s been forwarded here to our local museum. I have found some information, although no formal marriage/birth/death certificates are available. We don’t have any photographs of Jane or Craig, or any other materials in our collection.
Craig Kinsinger Baker was the son of an early Artesia physician, Dr. Perry Baker and his wife Maggie. (They came to Artesia, New Mexico in 1905) Craig was born in Artesia, New Mexico on September 5, 1907. Dr. Perry died in 1924. I can’t find any records of Craig and Jane’s marriage(s), but by 1930 he and Jane were boarding in Pennsylvania, where Craig was working as a civil engineer for the state highway department. Later in 1930, they were in St. Louis, Mississippi, where their son Joe Craig was born on August 16, 1930. In 1931 the family was living in Roswell, New Mexico, where their daughter Adele Mary was born on November 24, 1931. Craig was still living in Roswell in 1935, and made several trips to Puerto Rico/South America in the late 1930s—perhaps for civil engineering work? I found no further mentions of Craig after 1940.
Jane Cooney was harder to track down! She was born in Roswell, New Mexico in 1910. Interestingly, her father was also a physician-Dr. Daniel Cooney. Her mother was Mary R. Cooney. Jane’s father died on September 19, 1919 in Roswell and is buried there. Jane and her mother were still living in Roswell in the 1920s, but I don’t find any mention of Jane after 1927 when she was in high school.
At some point before 1951, Joe dropped the “e” from his first name, and went by “Jo” for the rest of his life. He married Barbara J. Clifton on October 6, 1951 in California. Joe died on February 12, 2007 and is buried in Denver, Colorado.
Adele went by several different names during her lifetime: Adele Mary Garrett-1967; Adele Mary Syvertson-1969; Adele Mary Morris-1971; Adele M. Barry-later in 1971; Adele M. Syvertson-1983. I don’t know if these last names reflect multiple marriages or not. She died on July 6, 2000.
I hope that this information helps to fill out your files—I’m an admirer of Charles Bukowski, and “Barfly” is one of my all-time favorite movies—I never dreamed that there was a local connection there!"
The last chapter made my fucking day .....
In addional I found this in : Albuquerque morning Journal, 10 June 1917.
So Jane had two sisters and one brother, she was the youngest family member, this is verified with the census of population as well.
Petey
RIP
Regarding the issue if B. and Jane were married I asked John Martin and Pamela Miller our dear Cupcakes via email.
John Martin , May 13th 2016 :
"I was one of Hank's closest friends for 30 years, and I NEVER heard that he and Jane had married. Just the opposite. After his marriage to Barbara Frye, Hank wanted no part of a second marriage (until he met Linda Lee).
I think the FBI account is mistaken."
Cupcakes , June 16th 2016 :
" Re relationship between Jane Cooney and Bukowski; The short answer is 'no,' Buk never indicated they had married. He did mention her occasionally, and when he did his entire demeanor would change. He became very sad and pensive -- and his body would appear deflated, as though he'd been kicked in the stomach, and had the wind taken out of him.
When her name came up it was mostly in conversations about past relationships, and never her as the main subject. And his tone was wistful, as though he were talking about a tragedy that could have been avoided. Not referring to there relationship in general being tragic, but the way it ended. My sense was he wished he could rewrite the last chapter. There seemed to be some unresolved issues still haunting him. It was obvious she had been an important part of his life, and would likely always own a large chunk of heart.
The only woman he mentioned being married to was Barbara Frye. That relationship apparently did not end well either, and also seemed to still bother him. One evening we were having a few drinks in his living room. I don't recall what preceded it, but he suddenly jumped up and walk into his bedroom. He came back waiving a document. He said, "Look at this ... can you believe this woman accused me of abuse! I'm a nice guy!" It was his divorce papers filed by Barbara Frye."
Sure there is still the doubt with some poems where B. mentioned his second wife or twice divorced ( I sent the poems to J.M. as well ) but for myself this record is closed. And the FBI file in this point is bullshit anyway...
Besides I was not able to locate a marriage certificate in L.A. I just found the one from the marriage with Linda.
B. loved Jane so much that for him they were married spiritual in mind and not legal.
Just my two cents ....
https://www.igd.fraunhofer.de/en/In.../Multi-biometric-person-identification-GES-3D
It's the only option to solve this in a proper way....
That's it so far for the moment.
John Martin , May 13th 2016 :
"I was one of Hank's closest friends for 30 years, and I NEVER heard that he and Jane had married. Just the opposite. After his marriage to Barbara Frye, Hank wanted no part of a second marriage (until he met Linda Lee).
I think the FBI account is mistaken."
Cupcakes , June 16th 2016 :
" Re relationship between Jane Cooney and Bukowski; The short answer is 'no,' Buk never indicated they had married. He did mention her occasionally, and when he did his entire demeanor would change. He became very sad and pensive -- and his body would appear deflated, as though he'd been kicked in the stomach, and had the wind taken out of him.
When her name came up it was mostly in conversations about past relationships, and never her as the main subject. And his tone was wistful, as though he were talking about a tragedy that could have been avoided. Not referring to there relationship in general being tragic, but the way it ended. My sense was he wished he could rewrite the last chapter. There seemed to be some unresolved issues still haunting him. It was obvious she had been an important part of his life, and would likely always own a large chunk of heart.
The only woman he mentioned being married to was Barbara Frye. That relationship apparently did not end well either, and also seemed to still bother him. One evening we were having a few drinks in his living room. I don't recall what preceded it, but he suddenly jumped up and walk into his bedroom. He came back waiving a document. He said, "Look at this ... can you believe this woman accused me of abuse! I'm a nice guy!" It was his divorce papers filed by Barbara Frye."
Sure there is still the doubt with some poems where B. mentioned his second wife or twice divorced ( I sent the poems to J.M. as well ) but for myself this record is closed. And the FBI file in this point is bullshit anyway...
Besides I was not able to locate a marriage certificate in L.A. I just found the one from the marriage with Linda.
B. loved Jane so much that for him they were married spiritual in mind and not legal.
Just my two cents ....
I´m in touch with some guys here:
https://www.igd.fraunhofer.de/en/In.../Multi-biometric-person-identification-GES-3D
It's the only option to solve this in a proper way....
That's it so far for the moment.
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mjp
Founding member
:rolleyes:
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
I've been thinking about this because because I actually live in a state (North Carolina) where cohabitation is still illegal.
It took a lot of googling, but I found this article in Slate that has a document indicating cohabitation was still technically illegal in California in 1964 ($1,000, 1 year, or both).
So maybe this was just a way for Bukowski to cover his bases -- especially if your employer was the Post Office and was looking for any way to get rid of you.
I don't know for sure that the doc in the article is legit or not -- maybe someone else can find another reference.
mjp
Founding member
The idea that he may have lied to the post office or FBI has come up before, and it makes sense.
What doesn't make sense though are the references in the poems to being married twice (long before he married Linda). He referred to his "second wife" or being married twice at least four times in poems written over the span of 7 or 8 years. That could be poetic license, of course. But that would be a lot of poetic license over a long period of time, wouldn't it.
We've also talked about the possibility of "common law" marriage, but California hasn't recognized common law marriage since 1895, so that wasn't an option or a possibility in the 1950s.
So it remains an intriguing question (to me, anyway) that may never be answered.
What doesn't make sense though are the references in the poems to being married twice (long before he married Linda). He referred to his "second wife" or being married twice at least four times in poems written over the span of 7 or 8 years. That could be poetic license, of course. But that would be a lot of poetic license over a long period of time, wouldn't it.
We've also talked about the possibility of "common law" marriage, but California hasn't recognized common law marriage since 1895, so that wasn't an option or a possibility in the 1950s.
So it remains an intriguing question (to me, anyway) that may never be answered.
Petey
RIP
Cupcakes , June 18th 2016 :
( she is a hell of a nice person.... )
"Re pictures of Jane Cooney; No, Buk never showed me any photos of Jane. And given the passionate nature of our relationship, I doubt he would voluntarily admit to having any. :)
The first time I recall him mentioning Jane was shortly after we met. He stopped by my house for a couple of drinks. We were still in the 'getting to know each other' stage. The subject of past relationships came up, and we each shared brief summaries of our more significant love-connection failures, including marriages.
That's when he first mentioned Jane (along with Linda King, Barbara Frye, and Marina's mother, FranceYe). He didn't identify them by name, or go on at length about any particular person. In fact, it was not a subject he felt comfortable going into depth about. I recall him implying Jane was a heavy drinker, and "damaged" ("like all his women"). Then ended the conversation with a heavy sigh, and suggested we talk about something else. Memories of her clearly made him sad. (He appeared to have a lot of unresolved grief over her. Perhaps writing Barfly helped purge some of that sorrow.)
Take care, my German friend. And, yes, please feel free to quote me in your article. I would considerate it an honor!
Gute Nacht,
Cups "
( she is a hell of a nice person.... )
"Re pictures of Jane Cooney; No, Buk never showed me any photos of Jane. And given the passionate nature of our relationship, I doubt he would voluntarily admit to having any. :)
The first time I recall him mentioning Jane was shortly after we met. He stopped by my house for a couple of drinks. We were still in the 'getting to know each other' stage. The subject of past relationships came up, and we each shared brief summaries of our more significant love-connection failures, including marriages.
That's when he first mentioned Jane (along with Linda King, Barbara Frye, and Marina's mother, FranceYe). He didn't identify them by name, or go on at length about any particular person. In fact, it was not a subject he felt comfortable going into depth about. I recall him implying Jane was a heavy drinker, and "damaged" ("like all his women"). Then ended the conversation with a heavy sigh, and suggested we talk about something else. Memories of her clearly made him sad. (He appeared to have a lot of unresolved grief over her. Perhaps writing Barfly helped purge some of that sorrow.)
Take care, my German friend. And, yes, please feel free to quote me in your article. I would considerate it an honor!
Gute Nacht,
Cups "
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
yeah, Pam is an amazing lady.
Bill
Bill
mjp
Founding member
An interesting tidbit, re: Glenwood vs. Glenview. In a 1971 Dirty Old Man he says when he left home at 19 or 20, he first stayed in an apartment on Third and Flower (before moving a little further up to Bunker Hill). And if you look at the businesses around Third and Flower...
There's "The Glenview."
May just be coincidence, maybe just jumbled up details somewhere along the line, who knows.
Petey
RIP
Well, I received an first expertise for free from this helpful guy:
http://m.swp.de/ulm/lokales/alb_don...-landesweit-vor-Gericht-Fotos;art4299,3603113
( sorry it's just in german...)
The main problem was the poor quality of both photos, but in his opinion Jane is in the :
front row , the fourth girl from right...
I have another expertise in the pipeline, so let's cross fingers both will be equal....
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Petey
RIP
I asked Barbet Schroeder a while ago via his homepage in which way Faye Dunaway prepared he character for Jane in "Barfly" but he never replied.
Today I found my answers, even most of them are half truth ...( the indian ancestry, "We were not in love, but she loved my way of drinking.")
http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/mickey-rourke-plays-a-tough-barfly
Well, and this quote is interesting as well:
"A rapport of souls," Bukowski said. "We finally got married about two years ago."
"We waited as long as possible," Linda said.
"Your first marriage?" I asked.
"My second," he said. "Long ago I married a millionairess by mistake."
But that's another story......
Today I found my answers, even most of them are half truth ...( the indian ancestry, "We were not in love, but she loved my way of drinking.")
http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/mickey-rourke-plays-a-tough-barfly
Well, and this quote is interesting as well:
"A rapport of souls," Bukowski said. "We finally got married about two years ago."
"We waited as long as possible," Linda said.
"Your first marriage?" I asked.
"My second," he said. "Long ago I married a millionairess by mistake."
But that's another story......
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
very impressive, Petey!
thank you.
thank you.
God Almighty! I have said this in the past but I will say it again. This website is ridiculous. The level of research and thoroughness is mind boggling. All of this info on Jane is incredible. Hats off to Petey and of course mjp. I am speechless. I am in awe. You guys are killing me over here.
