Trivia part III

[Gerard K H Love]

Thanks, I just spent the last few days speed reading Bukowski poetry looking for an Albatross reference and a mention of old drunk friends or poets. Now you say it's a poem that the Works Database just said is only contained in The Continual Condition, a book I do not yet possess. I sincerely needed a heavy dose of Bukowski right now being once again unemployed and now a non drinker. You know, up until now, whenever I read Bukowski I tended to drink more than usual. I love the tests in life.

 

[Black Swan]

The poem is also in The Flash of Lightning Behind the Mountain with another title Tonight.
So you're up Gerard! because I assume that you looked up the bird.

 

[mjp]

The poem is also in The Flash of Lightning Behind the Mountain with another title Tonight.

With changes, of course. Changes between two posthumous versions? Anyone still wondering if Bukowski made all these changes?

 

[d gray]

it's the kid in the 6 x 6 cage!! he's real i'm tellin' ya!

 

[cirerita]

...Changes between two posthumous versions? Anyone still wondering if Bukowski made all these changes?

That's perfectly possible and I think there are a few instances of this (don't have a list handy, sorry). The problem with the poems in The Continual Condition is that Martin did not seem to realize that many of them had previously appeared in posthumous collections under different titles. Using different versions of the same poem in two (or twenty) posthumous collections is indeed quite possible... and quite sloppy from an editorial angle, if you ask me.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

I'm going to wing this.

A classic American poet wrote a short poem about a common gardening tool or cart and it seems to be a big issue in poetry and maybe just to poets. What early poem did Bukowski mention the specific description of this cart?
At least one contemporary-and talented- poet who joins in with us from time to time here has referenced the same thing in their own poetry.

Yes, maybe someone may need a clue but I think many here, besides hank solo who knows everything, will know the answer to all of these questions and Bukowski may have mentioned it in a few poems.
Like geometry there are several questions here.

...and to think I got to ask this question because I whined about how hard Black Swan's question was. Thank you Black Swan.

 

[hank solo]

Ha. Now that's a toughie ;)

Reminds me of an old joke my uncle told me...

"Do you know how *** *** *********** goes?"
"No?"
"You push it"

I think he got the colour wrong though when he told me that one; and that he said it was a song rather than a poem, but ...

 

[bogdan]

A classic American poet wrote a short poem about a common gardening tool or cart and it seems to be a big issue in poetry and maybe just to poets. What early poem did Bukowski mention the specific description of this cart?
At least one contemporary-and talented- poet who joins in with us from time to time here has referenced the same thing in their own poetry.

And here I come:
The clasic American poet - William Carlos Williams
The common gardening tool or cart - a red wheelbarrow
Bukowski's poem - john dillinger and le chasseur maudit
The contemporary and talented poet - justin.barrett

:cool:

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Holy shit! bogdan you are good! I thought someone would get part of that but not all of it. Are you Father Luke in disguise? Is that what they are teaching in the schools in Romania these days?

You are up. I am impressed. Maybe you are justin.barrett.

 

[mjp]

All are justin.barrett and justin.barrett is all.

 

[bogdan]

Yeah, I'm good. Everybody tells me so. :D

It was just luck, actually, as I don't know very much about anything. I learned about the red wheelbarrow from an e-mail conversation I had with jb a while ago and the Bukowski poem happened to be on the "At Terror Street..." CD, which I have on my iPhone and listen to it every now and then.

Ok, here's my question:
Bukowski considered these titles for one of his books: "Beer and Frogs Legs", "I Can't Stand the Sunshine When People Walk Around in It", "For Jocks, Chambermaids, Thieves and Bassoon Players", "Tonic for the Mole", "Minstrels Would Go Crazy Singing This". Which book was that?

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Hot Water Music.

 

[bogdan]

Nope. I'll narrow it down, it was one of the poetry books.

 

[Ponder]

It Catches My Heart In Its Hands.

 

[bogdan]

Indeed. You're on.

 

[Ponder]

easy or difficult?

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Intelligent and thought provoking.

 

[Bukfan]

Now you're asking too much of Ponder, Gerard! ;)

 

[Ponder]

A very good friend of Bukowski edited a
poetry magazine in the early sixties.

Bukowski sent him a packet of poems and
he chosed one poem for his first issue.

And 25 years later, the editor writes: 'The poem remains one of
Bukowski's only sustained comments, in poetry,
on an American city other than Los Angeles.'

The editor liked the earthiness of such lines as

"but its hates are real: you can smell them
on the sweet subways / of morning; / but at least
give them this: everyman does not dream himself king /
as in L.A. where even hamburgers try for / glamour in the pan."

What's the title of the poem and the name of the editor?

 

[Gerard K H Love]

That would be obscure and over my head. It only provokes thoughts of my weakness, ignorance and lack of a reasonable Bukowski collection to research. Good question, though.

 

[Bukfan]

Is it Richmond?
The stanza sounds like it could be about New York.

 

[Ponder]

Good start, Bukfan.
No, Steve richmond wasn't the editor.
Try to think of another close friend.

A lack of a reasonable Bukowski collection to
research doesn't matter, Uncle Gerard.
You can do it. There are other research tools
to work with.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Neeli Cherovski - Laugh Literally and Man the Humping Guns?

 

[Ponder]

We have New York as the city.
Laugh Literally and Man the Humping Guns was first published
in 1969 I believe.

But you won the lotery!, Neeli Cherkovski was the editor of this
poetry magazine in the early sixties. Neeli was 15 years old!

Title of the poem?

 

[bogdan]

"New York as I Remember? And I Guess It Hasn't Changed." / Black Cat Review 1962... is that it?

 

[Ponder]

Nice cooperation, guys!

Bukfan did the foreplay,
Uncle Gerard won the middle game
and Bogdan finished the job.

Buknet United.

It's up to you, gentlemen.


http://collectingbukowski.com/pubs/blackcat.html

 

[Bukfan]

I came up with the right city, but that wasn't one of the questions. I guess I'm strictly a foreplay guy, but they say foreplay is important so...:)

The questions were about the title of the poem and the name of the editor, and Gerard and Bogdan answered those, so I'll leave it up to one of them to post the next question!

 

[Gerard K H Love]

New York was the most obvious answer in the equation. What other American city is known for it's subways?

When you put New York in search in the Works Database New York as I Remember? And I Guess It Hasn't Changed didn't come up. Even though you are the foreplay guy I don't care if you ask the question but bogdan came up with the poem. The poem was the answer even though he asked about the editor.
All Europeans all the time. That was a good question Ponder asked, good job on that.

 

[Bukfan]

Right, when I saw subways were mentioned I immediately thought of New York (had it said Underground, I would have guessed London. :D).

Europeans? No problem, Gerard! I hereby declare you an honorary European, with all the stigma it may entail.
So, ask a question, you European, you!

 

[Ponder]

When you put New York in search in the Works Database New York as I Remember? And I Guess It Hasn't Changed didn't come up

This popped up when I typed new york in the works database:

7 results for new york:

A Poet In New York
Bewitched In New York
New York As I Remember It? And I Guess It Hasn't Changed
New York In Hell
New York, New York
The Curtains Are Waving And People Walk Through The Afternoon Here And In Berlin And In New York City And In Mexico
Voice In A New York Subway

Oh, and the source of the question is:

Whitman's Wild Children © Neeli Cherkovski, 1988.

In Whitman's Wild Children, Neelie Cherkovski looks at eleven contemporary beat poets - Michael McClure, Charles Bukowski, John Wieners, James Broughton, Philip Lamantia, Bob Kaufman, Allen Ginsberg, William Everson, Gregory Corso, Harold Norse, and Lawrence Ferlinghetti -- chosen because each, like Whitman, has taken "his own road" and had little to do with what was thought acceptable in mainstream American culture during the 1940's and 1950's. As in his highly acclaimed biography Bukowski: A Life, Cherkovski draws on personal encounters and his own reactions to individual poems in order to create biographical portraits that are at once enlightening and full of life.

There is the beat word again...oh well, it's just an amazon.com review.