Virginia Tech Shootings

[Short Bus]

Only Americans?

No.

You are right.

Only North Americans.

If Canada has a gun problem then I don't know about it-but you may claim to know something I don't-which makes you Australian by default I think.

I've lived North of the U.S. all my life-it is full of right wing wackos gun
totting idiots racists zealots and bigots-like every other country on the planet.
But let me state clearly that I love the U.S. It is the only country I know that has the courage to air it's laundry in public-No other country would have held Watergate hearings in public ( this was really amazing) no other country would openly question going to war with the openness displayed-Bill Moyers etc. (yes it could have been debated further and yes there are efforts to reduce rights and freedoms from above and below but it is that constitution that allows for the mentioned to take place.

It is one of lifes more bitter ironies that enemies of the U.S. use U.S. freedom laws to promote their agenda the same way gun advocates use right to bear arms to promote their agenda.
It ain't perfect but parts of the U.S. constitution are the closest thing to sacred text I know.

Sure the place can be a nuthouse but it is the expressed freedoms as an unalienable right that makes the U.S. such a great and frustrating place to watch from afar (about 60 miles from my Canadian home).

Another North American

 

[the only good poet]

there's been a whole spate of shootings in south london recently. both the perpetrators and their victims were black teenagers, 15 to 17 yrs of age!

scotland has the second highest murder rate (per head) in europe. i believe we lost to the swedes.

 

[Olaf]

Scotland is the highest KNIFE murder captial in Western Europe!

A man was also shot not too far from my house while he was driving....I'm not entirely sure if he was shot by someone in the car or by someone outside...I'd say inside the car was more probable....but the papers never cleared it up to my knowledge.

We got a lot of violent people out there.
A lot of rage. A lot of unhappy people
pissed off with their Lot...if only
their guns were pens....*tears up*

 

[Bukfan]

But let me state clearly that I love the U.S. It is the only country I know that has the courage to air it's laundry in public-No other country would have held Watergate hearings in public ( this was really amazing)

Do you really believe that? When a political scandal reaches a certain level they have to deal with it in public, whether it's in the US or in Europe! We've also had public hearings where ministers deliberately have broken the law, causing the government to step down afterwards etc. etc.
Back to guns. How come the gun killings in Canada is ten times as low as in the US ? I wonder about that.

Vodka: I'm sure most people are aware of the difference between the american people and the politics of the US! All the americans I've met here in Europe have been very nice people. I would never blame any people for the politics of their country. We all know that the politicians says one thing before the elections and often behave quite differently after..

 

[mjp]

I can't speak for anyone else down here but my car is a role cage on wheels with multiple gun ports - and I don't even signal when I turn!

Awesome! ;) The point being, it's easy to have a distorted view of a place unless you live there yourself.

Of course... we are all busy treating each other poorly. But only in the beautiful paradox that is the USA can one do it with armor piercing, cyanide tipped bullets and 'death-bringer' missiles.

Well, to be fair, you can do those things in Iraq too, and the majority of those weapons come from China (missiles) and Russia (rifles), not America.

America is a violent place.

Sometimes.

Just like London, Moscow, Calcutta and Reykjavik. If someone wants to kill you and they use a knife, a baseball bat, a gun or a rock, what's the difference? If you're on the receiving end of enough rage, you're fucked, no matter what the delivery system is.

The planes that hit the World Trade Center were commandeered with box cutters for christ's sake!

 

[Olaf]

The planes that hit the World Trade Center were commandeered with box cutters for christ's sake!

Haven't you heard mjp - it was an inside job! controlled demolition!

a boxcutter vs. a trillion dollar defence network - no contest.

(Anyone interested: take a read of - The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions by David Ray Griffin.)

 

[ROC]

Wow. Where to start?
My original "Americans kill people" was tongue in cheek and I appreciated the like minded response from mjp. I did understand your point.

We are not clichés, but the clichés exist for a good reason.

I have spent quite a bit of time in the USA (New York and elsewhere) and guns (or the perceived threat thereof) are definitely a factor one does not consider in South East Asia, Europe, Scandinavia or Australia.

More than 200million weapons in the community and everyone goes into soul searching mode whenever one of these guns makes it onto a school campus?

What the hell?

Jimmy Snerp. I realize that I do not know you - you are probably a great guy and all that but, from your post above, you come across as a fool.
North America is North America - the USA.
Canada is Canada - they are different countries. I know you know this so what the hell does "If Canada has a gun problem then I don't know about it-but you may claim to know something I don't-which makes you Australian by default I think." mean?!
"I've lived North of the U.S. all my life-it is full of right wing wackos gun
totting idiots racists zealots and bigots-like every other country on the planet." only makes sense if you have never traveled anywhere in the world and/or you are speaking out of your ass. Guns are not a part of the culture in most countries around the world.
The "dirty laundry' bit? Does that stuff make you feel better?
You think the issues at the heart of the matter are being solved?
Enquires help put scandals to bed. They cost millions of tax payers dollars, take months and/or years to conclude and usually satisfy nobody. But, by then, the focus has shifted to some other problem anyway. We have the same crap here with coronial enquiries.

And Olaf - that dog wont hunt

And I just realized exactly why mjp does not want politics on this forum.
Consider these my last posts on the topic.

 

[bospress.net]

and we aren't all george w. bush.

Sadly, 31% of us are....

 

[ROC]

:cool:

...or maybe not.

See 'Hacking Democracy'

 

[Short Bus]

I think your last line about politics and this site is correct and my attempt at humour regarding australians may have missed the mark. That said We do need to be correct and I can;t let the fool line lie.

Jimmy Snerp. I realize that I do not know you - you are probably a great guy and all that but, from your post above, you come across as a fool.
North America is North America - the USA.
Canada is Canada - they are different countries.

I suggest you grab an Atlas then look up continent and find North America-it includes Canada.
Then grab a mirror and look up, fool.

I know you know this so what the hell does "If Canada has a gun problem then I don't know about it-but you may claim to know something I don't-which makes you Australian by default I think." mean?!

Tongue in cheek reference to the confidenty stated error North Americans-you know that Aussie bragadicio thing. Again the humour may have missed the mark.

"I've lived North of the U.S. all my life-it is full of right wing wackos gun
totting idiots racists zealots and bigots-like every other country on the planet."
only makes sense if you have never traveled anywhere in the world and/or you are speaking out of your ass. Guns are not a part of the culture in most countries around the world.

True guns may not be part of very culture but wack jobs certainly are. We have Christian Reformists in Ontario who should get a letter from the Taliban telling them to lighten up.

The "dirty laundry' bit? Does that stuff make you feel better?

>You think the issues at the heart of the matter are being solved?
Enquires help put scandals to bed. They cost millions of tax payers dollars, take months and/or years to conclude and usually satisfy nobody. But, by then, the focus has shifted to some other problem anyway. We have the same crap here with coronial enquiries.<

Absolutely and in context. Inquiries like Watergate may not make me feel better but hopeful.
Watergate started the inquiry process and I believe it could only have started in the U.S. True again that efforts are made now to stall and control these inquiries but Watergate was the first that I know about and this inquiry (and reporting) directly lead to a resignation and convictions of White House offcials. I think you would be hard pressed to find a similiar situation in another country. It has not happened in Canada. Heck Clinton had to testify about what he did with Monica in detail and on camera-Again you would be hard pressed to find another ruling leader who would have to go through that process-only in America (U.S.).

And I'll stop the political stuff after this post. Roc, you are right on when you say this isn't the place. We can PM insults and insights all day if you like (which is what my friends and I do all day) but I am serious when I write that it is the American constitution that made the publishing of Buks writings possible.