Was Bukowski A Genius?

[Black Swan]

Yeah. The creative force.

I would have snipped it too
hey FL
at 3 am after the bar deco it made sense

 

[number6horse]

Welcome Liuba. Hope we can all relax and toast the fact that the Cubs are OUT of the playoffs and that means Armageddon has been post-poned once again.

My definition of GENIUS : Something I record/save/copy for my grandchildren to experience. Art that either captures perfectly or reflects absurdly the current times.

Honestly, I would say that Buk has proven to be a genius. But it has taken time. And a lot of posthumous publishing, which I am grateful for. His poetry seals it for me.

The Tragedy Of The Leaves
The Life And Death Of One Tough Motherfucker
No. 6 Horse
Me And Faulkner

 

[Father Luke]

at 3 am after the bar deco it made sense

Now, that part? Doesn't make sense.
:D

Seriously, I like the difference you make between genius, and a creative
force. Hitler may have been a genius, but look at his paintings - blechh. Bland
uninspired... you see where one can go with that? It's like the Zen Motorcycle
Maintenance question of quality. Is there such a thing as quality?

Creative force? yeah. Buk had that all over. The stories of him writing in the
white newspaper border of old newspapers. He just couldn't hold it in.
And he practiced what he preached. That whole quote that if you write
to impress your girl friend, or if you write for any other reason than it comes
out of you like a nice hot beer shit, best to forget it.

So, uh what bar was that again? ;)

 

[Black Swan]

Not tonight I have a headache

 

[Father Luke]

Fine.

I'll be sleeping it off.

 

[adrian]

Nah, he wasn't a genius as such. He just had a knack for cutting through all the BS with a sledgehammer. I'd reserve the "genius" title for people that changed the world. Like Einstein. And maybe OJ Simpson :D

 

[nomadi00]

what kind of silly question is that?

i think most of us would concur
that he would hate this site
and yet secretly gloat from the recognition
but, who gives a shit anyway
he's dead, his work lives on
and we're all his fans
now go fuck yourself, mate

whether or not he was a genius
who knows
i've known genius's who've accomplished nothing
and ordinary people who've achieved great things

I'm sorry, why do you respond in poems? Also, chill some, dude.

 

[Spinbowler]

I remember the belgian tv interviewer with the strange concepts in "born into this" TRYING to angry for no reason.
It was the only part of the documentary that I didn't really get?

 

[bernard stachman]

Buk had a talent which most 'respected' writers dont have; he never took himself too seriously. i mean most academic writers dont know shit from shinola about having a good laugh.

 

[Father Luke]

^
Give the man a cigar.

 

[TheSilkPig]

Genius? I am sure he would laugh his ass off at that. From what my puny little mind can work out, he would hate the fact that we would consider him a genius...

I don't know why he did what he did with word. I just know I can identify with it and it also gives me great reassurance to know I am not alone. This world is too full of fucks who want something to latch onto and call brilliant (like the whole of the punk movement, this is my insight and no-one elses etc) or something that makes their otherwise dull lives seem interesting by observing the obvious brilliance of a setting sun or a cool ocean breeze on a warm day sipping rioja... Ooops I digress! erm, yeah that's it... Buk to me is like a wise friend who doesn't dress for the occasion. Someone to keep me sane. Someone who makes sense. He was like the common sense writer for me. No bullshit and little fabrication in that there are no real fantastical elements just honest evaluations unfiltered. That's the best part, he doesn't give a fuck who reads him, or rather he never give a fuck so why should we? I wish I knew, I am turning all of my friends onto Bukowski because I feel he is the SINGLE most relevant author for me personally (and maybe only me) that I have ever read. Whilst I do enjoy reading the windy paths of Twain and the beautifully blurted lines of the 'greats', It's Bukowski who makes sense and that's all the matters.

Fuck Genius, Genius is a word for the universities. Bollocks to that. He rocks!!! That's all...

I can swear now, see!!! :)

 

[bospress.net]

Sharon Stone says that she has an IQ of 154 which makes her a Genius;
Madonna reportedly has a 140 IQ which puts her on the border of Genius;
Andy Warhol was estimated to have an IQ of 86...

Genius is overrated.

Bill

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Had a Geometry teacher in High School who use to tell stories about different things like solving everyday problems and some tough problems. After he finished his stories he would apply them to the geometric therom we were studying that day. The point being, everyone thinks genius is of math and science, but words tie it all together and makes the thinking function.
When Bukowski observes his cat being taunted by a mockingbird and later catching the mockingbird, he creates very broad ideas and pictures in our minds. Not the same ideas for each reader, although some obvious thoughts, but there is real genius in the words he put together.

And he didn't lay on his back on a scaffling with paint dripping in his eyes. So we are right to see that he was a genius.

 

[jmoshea]

Sharon Stone says that she has an IQ of 154 which makes her a Genius;
Madonna reportedly has a 140 IQ which puts her on the border of Genius;
Andy Warhol was estimated to have an IQ of 86...

Makes you wonder about the guy who made up the IQ test...doesn't it.

 

[bospress.net]

Also, these are estimated IQ scores. I'm not sure they are certified. It seems to me that those that know that they have talent and do not need to prove anythign to anyone could care less about their IQ. For someone like Dr. Stephen Hawking it is clear. He does not need to prove anything to anyone as his history speaks for itself. Then you get someone like Sharon Stone's IQ is brought up SO often that she really should just go ahead and get it tattooed on her forehead. She has something to prove.

Buk could have had a 90 IQ and he would still have had a way with the words that others envy.

I'll take art over an IQ score any day.

Bill

 

[ROC]

Lester Young, visiting a tomb of the unknown soldier in Europe was said to have commented "1914 - 1918... what a tragedy to have died so young."
Young could be justifiably termed a musical genius.
And George Bush is supposed to have a high IQ too.
So what does it all tell you about those tests?
Yeah, give me art and functional intelligence any day.

 

[CarversDog]

In many of his stories -- one that immediately comes to mind is the delightful The Day We Talked About James Thurber -- Bukowski often referred to himself as "out of talent" and drew sharp and unkind, self loathing comparisons between his own writing and the prose of writers he admired.

 

[Wanda]

YES! YES! YES! His words have really helped me through some shitty times in my life, I'm a crazy SOB and his words help me realize that I'm not alone.

 

[Joseph K]

Genius? Yes and no. Yes, because he created some amazing, unique, great writing that no else could have. No, because to be a genius you have to hit the target more often. Half of the art is editing - not just revising but judging what is good. CB let out too much poor stuff. Handing stuff to your editor is a cop out. He needed one but even so... he could have scrapped more before it left his room. So, "inconsistent and flawed genius" for me.

 

[the only good poet]

he may be the only genius we deserve.

 

[Snowball Fight]

Genius? Yes and no. Yes, because he created some amazing, unique, great writing that no else could have. No, because to be a genius you have to hit the target more often. Half of the art is editing - not just revising but judging what is good. CB let out too much poor stuff. Handing stuff to your editor is a cop out. He needed one but even so... he could have scrapped more before it left his room. So, "inconsistent and flawed genius" for me.

I'd have to disagree here...Genius does not equal Perfectionist. If you hit the target sqaurely, even once, you made it.

And...Editing is art!?

 

[Father Luke]

(...)
Editing is art!?

M oSt de FinativE ly.

 

[CarversDog]

I'd have to disagree here...Genius does not equal Perfectionist. If you hit the target sqaurely, even once, you made it.

And...Editing is art!?

What an amazingly ridiculous question. All one has to do is study the current conflict around Raymond Carver's work and Gordon Lish's heavy editing of same to understand the importance and relevance of the editorial process. Anyone who asks if editing is art understands jack about writing.

 

[Father Luke]

this ought to be interesting

 

[Snowball Fight]

What an amazingly ridiculous question. All one has to do is study the current conflict around Raymond Carver's work and Gordon Lish's heavy editing of same to understand the importance and relevance of the editorial process. Anyone who asks if editing is art understands jack about writing.

Relevant - Yes
Important - Yes
Art -No (especially in the context of a discussion about the "genius" of the writer)

 

[CarversDog]

Editing is indeed an art, whether you care to realize that fact or not. Edmund Wilson and Matthew Bruccoli are spinning in their graves as we speak.

 

[bospress.net]

gen·ius [jeen-yuhs] -noun, plural gen·ius·es
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2. a person having such capacity.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
4. natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6. the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7. either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8. a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics

OK. So according to Dictionary.com, Buk qualifies as a genius in entries 1, 2, 4, 5, but only if you see the genius. It is subjective. This thread is a bit like arguing that the Grateful Dead was the best band that there EVER was. Impossible to quantify and subject to opinion. Certainly they are not the BEST band that ever was if you love only jazz. Plus this assumes that the person making the statement has heard and judged every band that there ever was. I have heard that Madonna is a musical genius, but only if you get her art. I do not.

In the case of Buk as a genius (IQ over 140), that is impossible to say, but I would have to take a guess and say that he was not. Still, it does not matter, really. I'd rather read him than Dr Stephen Hawking or Marilyn Vos Savant...

Bill

 

[Snowball Fight]

Editing is indeed an art, whether you care to realize that fact or not. Edmund Wilson and Matthew Bruccoli are spinning in their graves as we speak.

I like a lot of Bukowski's work; that's why I'm on this forum.

Originally I dropped a lot of names too...but I've editted them out.

 

[CarversDog]

What do you mean by referencing name-dropping? Do you know who Wilson and Bruccoli were?

 

[Snowball Fight]

I believe they were, respectively, the leader of the United States and the leader of Italy at the outbreak of World War I.