Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Art should not be done for money just like sex should only be for love not money. Art is sex.;)
What is art again?
- Thread starter mjp
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Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Yes, chronic, I'm beginning to think so too. I am the walrus. Then again this may be the acid head thread.
Albert Hoffman, the father of LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), lived to the ripe old age of 102. And, Hoffman studied hallucinogenic substances found in Mexican mushrooms and other plants used by the aboriginal people. This led to the synthesis of psilocybin, the active agent of many "magic mushrooms."
Would that be considered art; or just something someone created that helped synthesize the creation of art? Because I believe he created it initially to relieve middle-age boredom.
Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.
...
Semolina pilchard, climbing up the eiffel tower.
Elementary penguin singing hari krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking edgar allan poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob.
Goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob g'goo.
Pax
Would that be considered art; or just something someone created that helped synthesize the creation of art? Because I believe he created it initially to relieve middle-age boredom.
Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.
...
Semolina pilchard, climbing up the eiffel tower.
Elementary penguin singing hari krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking edgar allan poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob.
Goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob g'goo.
Pax
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
"Paying the rent", I assumed, was used always and here on in as an expression, per se, in this discussion, to mean, "to make money". Paying the rent, literally, or to get by, is admirable, in a sense. A skid row bum, who plays a guitar on the street and gets coins tossed into his guitar case, is quite poetic to me. Does he love what he's doing? Maybe - he's poor, and he bought the guitar, didn't he?
homeless mind said:
Inevitably, and indubiously.
Pax to you. No hard feelings.
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
i heard recently of a poetess who was up for poet laureate but rejected it. she would have had to write poems for coronations and state events, what-have-you. her reasoning was that you cannot write to order.
in the past there were poems scribed for events and novels written in serial form(we might as well say for money), stuff that are now considered great works.
what has happened.
in the past there were poems scribed for events and novels written in serial form(we might as well say for money), stuff that are now considered great works.
what has happened.
mjp
Founding member
Mark Twain wrote a lot of great, funny work in order to "write his way out" of bankruptcy. He made some bad investments (in typesetting machines!), lost all his money and decided that rather than declare bankruptcy he would pay back every penny he owed. He paid all that money back by writing. Would he have written everything he wrote when he was on that tear if he had been prosperous and comfortable? Maybe not. Bukowski said the writing of Post Office so quickly and so soon after leaving the PO was motivated by fear (fear of poverty). In the visual arts it's common to do commissioned work, which is the artist's work more or less bent to the wishes of the buyer.
Art made only for the love of it is great. So is writing, cabinet making, quilting, etc. But there is a difference between being a professional and an amateur. An amateur has the luxury of doing whatever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want. A professional does not usually have such luxury and often has to use their talent to pay the rent, sometimes in ways that may not be what they would be doing if they were absolutely free.
Then there is the rarer breed of successful professional, who eventually regain the freedom of the amateur, but by the time they reach that level, are usually accustomed to the perks that suitcases full of money usually bring. So now they have to maintain that income, and the easiest way to do that is start "production" in one way or another.
Trying to apply some "sellout level" to all creative people as a whole is really impossible. And even "sellouts" can create some great work while selling out.
Art made only for the love of it is great. So is writing, cabinet making, quilting, etc. But there is a difference between being a professional and an amateur. An amateur has the luxury of doing whatever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want. A professional does not usually have such luxury and often has to use their talent to pay the rent, sometimes in ways that may not be what they would be doing if they were absolutely free.
Then there is the rarer breed of successful professional, who eventually regain the freedom of the amateur, but by the time they reach that level, are usually accustomed to the perks that suitcases full of money usually bring. So now they have to maintain that income, and the easiest way to do that is start "production" in one way or another.
Trying to apply some "sellout level" to all creative people as a whole is really impossible. And even "sellouts" can create some great work while selling out.
Charles Dickens is perhaps the greatest serial writer who every graced a blank sheet of paper with his words. I believe he got paid by the word; hence, why many of his works are lengthy.
Great point.
Agreed, TOGP.
Amen. Sledge hammer hits nail on the proverbial head.
Pax
This is a great thread.
There will always be an argument as to what is good art and what is bad. This a regular occurrence with my father and myself. Who's wrong who's right.
I do have fun debating the topic but neither of us wins or loses, we just know we are both right.
Bottom line is.... does it move you, do you like it, does it have some meaning deeper then what your currently experiencing, is it memorable?
There is nothing wrong with getting compensation for doing something you truly love. Doing what other people admire you for. We all buy art, music, literature etc...
So yeah some made for hire art/music sucks, is horrible, is icky. But I bet someone else is out there buying it thinking this is the best thing ever.
I applaud those that can create and make a living at it and enjoy it. I like a small percentage of what's out there. But what I like, I like very much and am very happy that someone is out here creating something I can admire that I can't create myself.
And allowing me the pleasure of adding it to my collection of stuff.
just a bit more then 2.257 of my cents:D
There will always be an argument as to what is good art and what is bad. This a regular occurrence with my father and myself. Who's wrong who's right.
I do have fun debating the topic but neither of us wins or loses, we just know we are both right.
Bottom line is.... does it move you, do you like it, does it have some meaning deeper then what your currently experiencing, is it memorable?
There is nothing wrong with getting compensation for doing something you truly love. Doing what other people admire you for. We all buy art, music, literature etc...
So yeah some made for hire art/music sucks, is horrible, is icky. But I bet someone else is out there buying it thinking this is the best thing ever.
I applaud those that can create and make a living at it and enjoy it. I like a small percentage of what's out there. But what I like, I like very much and am very happy that someone is out here creating something I can admire that I can't create myself.
And allowing me the pleasure of adding it to my collection of stuff.
just a bit more then 2.257 of my cents:D
Aldous Huxley, seeing a copy of the avant-garde periodical transition on the table of a friend, took one look at it and remarked: "No, it isn't art." This is "transition" spelled backwards but with a slight change: NO IT ISN [T] ART.
Clever guy, Aldous. I think this was during his pre-mescaline days...
Clever guy, Aldous. I think this was during his pre-mescaline days...
all i know is art seems best when you dont take it seriously while at the same time you act like you cant do with out it. shit tricky
i recently wrote a long narritive poem about mega man (a fucken video game character ) it was just present for a friend every line was written to excite him and not in an attempt to write a good poem
i just re read the fucker its some of the best purest stuff i have ever written
i recently wrote a long narritive poem about mega man (a fucken video game character ) it was just present for a friend every line was written to excite him and not in an attempt to write a good poem
i just re read the fucker its some of the best purest stuff i have ever written
Bukowski Art With Black Sparrow Envelope
I still can't figure out how to post a dad-gum photo so it appears immediately here; as they are jpgs of my own shooting...(If a mod wants to help and make it immediately viewable, AOK with me; and tx.)
Here is one that may help define art, as per Sir Charles and BSP. :D
Does anyone know if this is the original envelope it came in? Sorry about the stain on the top near BSP, it's how I purchased this bad boy...
Also went to Chronic's site, and viewed the ART pieces there - http://www.collectingbukowski.com/nyg/nyg_77.html. Saw the hand-drawn and the signed and numbered versions (not this one). Does anyone know how many additional ones like this were made?
Pax
I still can't figure out how to post a dad-gum photo so it appears immediately here; as they are jpgs of my own shooting...(If a mod wants to help and make it immediately viewable, AOK with me; and tx.)
Here is one that may help define art, as per Sir Charles and BSP. :D
Does anyone know if this is the original envelope it came in? Sorry about the stain on the top near BSP, it's how I purchased this bad boy...
Also went to Chronic's site, and viewed the ART pieces there - http://www.collectingbukowski.com/nyg/nyg_77.html. Saw the hand-drawn and the signed and numbered versions (not this one). Does anyone know how many additional ones like this were made?
Pax
I suppose I didn't come into the conversation expecting someone to assume a figure of speech's meaning was different than what is commonly thought. I reread your post about pop stars making mass amounts of soul-less money, and I think you should start taking issue with the people who are interested in consuming soul-less art instead (or in addition to) of people that are filling the demand.
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
If you knew me, you'd know I generally tend to hate people as well ;)
But the starving jazz musician? Hell, I'd buy him a coffee and fried egg.
But the starving jazz musician? Hell, I'd buy him a coffee and fried egg.
The REAL Art, the best of your best, the finest of your fine, does not respond to name-calling. It hasn't got time for "amateur" and "professional" or "hack", "hobbyist" or "superstar". The Art only cares that you are fueled and ready, that you are nourished and able, that you are physically and intellectually up for the chore of executing it at more and more challenging levels.
Luck might have it that your rare abilities earn you a buck in the drib-drab. Good. But dont mistake those dutiful efforts for advancement, or those "called-for" products for illuminations. No matter how grand and how celebrated, most of the lesser artful doings look backwards for a "need" or they beg desperately of needers for justification. The the REAL stuff only requires you, it and another test of will.
Luck might have it that your rare abilities earn you a buck in the drib-drab. Good. But dont mistake those dutiful efforts for advancement, or those "called-for" products for illuminations. No matter how grand and how celebrated, most of the lesser artful doings look backwards for a "need" or they beg desperately of needers for justification. The the REAL stuff only requires you, it and another test of will.
Scrib, my man.
I'm ready to do funnels with you. Michelob Ultra. 24 oz. a pop. Haven't done one in 20 years; but you make me want to do one. You go first.
Dang. I'm gonna have to talk to my art. See how it labels itself. And make sure it has an md and/or phd, so I can be physically and mentally up to the task of creating it "” in regards to its opinion of my mental and physical health, prowess.
Again, you rock, bro.
We have to do shots together. Seriously. When are you heading to the Southern part of our glorious nation? You, in a word, kick-ass. Hyphenated and all...
Pax
I'm ready to do funnels with you. Michelob Ultra. 24 oz. a pop. Haven't done one in 20 years; but you make me want to do one. You go first.
Dang. I'm gonna have to talk to my art. See how it labels itself. And make sure it has an md and/or phd, so I can be physically and mentally up to the task of creating it "” in regards to its opinion of my mental and physical health, prowess.
Again, you rock, bro.
We have to do shots together. Seriously. When are you heading to the Southern part of our glorious nation? You, in a word, kick-ass. Hyphenated and all...
Pax
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I have a wraps copy and it is in the same envelope.
As for the other details, see your messages.
Thanks, PS.
message just in; reading now; greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(that's really cool, JM, thanks for the great info.)
Pax,
hm/b
message just in; reading now; greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(that's really cool, JM, thanks for the great info.)
Pax,
hm/b
Yeah, sometimes you gotta sit down with the Art and have a little talk. Furrow your brow, scrunch your nose, raise your chin, flair your nostrils and see if you smell an imposter. Reflect upon your motivations, look right into the eyes of that thing, that song, that dance, that bit of needlepoint. If its nervous, twitchy, or offers you money it could all be a ruse. Then you kick that fucker in the ass and it scampers away. To where its needed. But you got the money and the real Art cheers from all around. So you sit back, funnel down a big beer like a rosey-cheeked frat boy and stare-down a work-in-progress. Whats it gonna be this time?
Great takes by scribbler and mjp, methinks.
Art can't be prescribed, a very artistic thinking musician Brian Eno pointed out once that just because a music has high intentions doesn't mean it will suceed as such and vice versa. The music of Motown is very artistic but was composed, played and performed with strictly commercial aspects in design.
(i'm sorry, i'll go back to being silly very soon)
Art can't be prescribed, a very artistic thinking musician Brian Eno pointed out once that just because a music has high intentions doesn't mean it will suceed as such and vice versa. The music of Motown is very artistic but was composed, played and performed with strictly commercial aspects in design.
(i'm sorry, i'll go back to being silly very soon)
Somehow, I'm able to picture you running around your house yelling "Goo Goo Gajoob!!!"
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
Silly boy! It's "koo koo kachoo!"
Not so fast, Mrs. G. :p
And let me bring James Joyce into the mix, as this is a writing and educational site....:D
Straight from Wikipedia (the earthen gospel created by man):
Lennon explained much of the song to Playboy in 1980:
"The first line was written on one acid trip one weekend. The second line was written on the next acid trip the next weekend, and it was filled in after I met Yoko. Part of it was putting down Hare Krishna. All these people were going on about Hare Krishna, Allen Ginsberg in particular. The reference to "Elementary penguin" is the elementary, naive attitude of going around chanting, "Hare Krishna", or putting all your faith in any one idol.
...(snip)...
Some have speculated that the opening line, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together", is a parody of the opening line of "Marching to Pretoria", a folk song: "I'm with you and you're with me and we are all together."
The song also contains the exclamation goo goo g'joob with "koo koo g'joob" heard clearly in the second. Various hypotheses exist regarding the origin and meaning. One is that the phrase was derived from the similar "koo koo ka choo", to which it is often mondegreened,* in Simon and Garfunkel's Mrs. Robinson, written in 1967.
However, the film The Graduate, where "Mrs. Robinson" debuted, did not appear until December 1967, a month after "I Am the Walrus", and The Graduate Original Soundtrack (which contained only fragments of the final version of "Mrs Robinson") was not until January 1968.
James Joyce's Finnegans Wake contains the words googoo goosth at the top of page *557, where it appears:...like milk-juggles as if it was the wrake of the hapspurus or old Kong Gander O'Toole of the Mountains or his googoo goosth she seein, sliving off over the sawdust lobby out of the backroom, wan ter, that was everywans in turruns, in his honeymoon trim, holding up his fingerhals...
*mondegreened: now that's a fucking word, eh?
JL: RIP, my brother.
Pax
And let me bring James Joyce into the mix, as this is a writing and educational site....:D
Straight from Wikipedia (the earthen gospel created by man):
Lennon explained much of the song to Playboy in 1980:
"The first line was written on one acid trip one weekend. The second line was written on the next acid trip the next weekend, and it was filled in after I met Yoko. Part of it was putting down Hare Krishna. All these people were going on about Hare Krishna, Allen Ginsberg in particular. The reference to "Elementary penguin" is the elementary, naive attitude of going around chanting, "Hare Krishna", or putting all your faith in any one idol.
...(snip)...
Some have speculated that the opening line, "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together", is a parody of the opening line of "Marching to Pretoria", a folk song: "I'm with you and you're with me and we are all together."
The song also contains the exclamation goo goo g'joob with "koo koo g'joob" heard clearly in the second. Various hypotheses exist regarding the origin and meaning. One is that the phrase was derived from the similar "koo koo ka choo", to which it is often mondegreened,* in Simon and Garfunkel's Mrs. Robinson, written in 1967.
However, the film The Graduate, where "Mrs. Robinson" debuted, did not appear until December 1967, a month after "I Am the Walrus", and The Graduate Original Soundtrack (which contained only fragments of the final version of "Mrs Robinson") was not until January 1968.
James Joyce's Finnegans Wake contains the words googoo goosth at the top of page *557, where it appears:...like milk-juggles as if it was the wrake of the hapspurus or old Kong Gander O'Toole of the Mountains or his googoo goosth she seein, sliving off over the sawdust lobby out of the backroom, wan ter, that was everywans in turruns, in his honeymoon trim, holding up his fingerhals...
*mondegreened: now that's a fucking word, eh?
JL: RIP, my brother.
Pax
No, no, no, no and no.
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
I.... can't even begin to disect that post as I normally would by ending the quotes at each paragraph and replying to that then continuing in that manner. That's just too fucking insane for me over "koo koo kachoo" and other sounds in acid-trip songs... haha. Regardless, that's all goddamn fascinating, non the less, that sounds in a song could mean so much.
* yes, that is some fucking word :s. Took me a minute to find it on dictionary.com, as the past tense isn't defined, just the main word:
mondegreen: a word or phrase resulting from a misinterpretation of a word or phrase that has been heard.
Ie: "koo koo kachoo" as in: The Beatles, "I Am The Walrus" [/kidding]
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
Right, I HOPE it meant nothing.
If Lennon was acting the true artist, as I suspect, it was injected as a non-sequitur. So meaning, aswers, truth, keys, clues and solutions should not burden the Art effort - those lines combined with that music needn't be any more impactful. I'm better for having heard it and having known it. And THAT is what Art can do.