What makes Bukowski so unique?

G

grayxray

Buk will always bounce back and forth; common but they goes out of his way to prove he is not common; that is unless you believe genius, whores, working men, streetcar drivers - lonely beaten-down people are common, which they are not.

If anything the "academics" as you put it are common, as they follow somewhat the same path and have many common threads between them and often think alike, saving their criticism for those who are not in their common club, such as the whores, working men, streetcar drivers and lonely beaten down people.

Just my observation.

And one more thing - ordinary man? Nothing ordinary about anybody; some are a little more boring than others, but nothing ordinary; I can find interest in anybody.
 
In Up To His Ears

....

Buk quote:
"I'm a very common simple man. I do have genius, but with a very low common denominator. I'm simple, I'm not profound. My genius stems from an interest in whores, working men, streetcar drivers - lonely beaten-down people. And those are the people I'd like to see reading my stuff, and I don't want to see too many learned comments, too much criticism, or too much praise get between me and them"

from "Sunlight here I am", page 166.

Bukfan, thanks for posting this revealing quote, had not come across it before. Here's the man himself observing himself better than anyone 'learned' could ever possibly do, imo, and why such an outside analysis from a critic can sometimes be injurious and superfluous to those readers who may not have already made up their minds about this Bukowski fellow.

As I've stuck my neck out to mention before, sometimes the scholarly discourse on a man, beyond a certain point, can end up coming between the reader and what's read, and it's the rare biographer whose spirit is as broad and sympathetic as the man or woman he/she is writing about. (But it's possible.)

Inadvertently such academic chronographers end up making the subject of their criticisms seem less worthy of being read, rather than more, and they don't even realize it at the time they are doing it: their appreciation of their subject is full of secret doubts and reservations, and the biographer appears unable to integrate the subject's genius and his short-comings in a fully integrated manner, instead of either/or. Without going into specific instances for now, I've seen this in the clubhouse on a number of occasions, and there appears to be no cure for it except for one to read more good biographies and get past the reservations about being fooled, deceived or taken advantage of by the subject under analysis. (I'm not worried myself about being fooled, if the lie says something true about life.)

It's not that the subject is free of interesting faults"”of course not"”and the faults and short-comings are what help to unfurl the subject's genius. But the problem is in assessing what the true faults are.

In Bukowski's case, some of his themes related to outward male dominance"”such is in some of the stories in South Of No North"”could be viewed as being a short-sighted, limited or immature view of female sexuality and fickleness, at least on the surface, though there can also be truth to it! Nevertheless, these themes have called out some of Bukowski's detractors, and it's one reason why he has been rejected as a serious writer by those who are too impatient or short-sighted to hang in there until they come across the depth of feeling and insight in so many of his great poems. I consider "Ignus Fatuus," off the CD At Terror Street and Agony Way, to be one of the great poems, on what real death is, in the English language. But I believe that most academics would never admit to it being a great poem if they had known who wrote it before reading it themselves. That's how the mind screens out threats to itself: by comparing something new to their standard frame of reference and not being able to take it in.

The good news is that there should always be room in the universities for contemporary literature, no matter how bad it sometimes is, because it's a reflection of life now and not 200 years ago. If the academic boundaries aren't stretched by the courageous academics or biographers, preferably with a truly intigrated understanding of the person they are writting about, some students might never be exposed to the good stuff: the good man Bukowski, and a few others.

Written just for the hell of it.

Poptop
 
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Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
The simplicity of his writing is what he mastered. That is not a simple procedure it takes an immense control and self discipline.He learned from other writers, musiciens, painters by comparing effectiveness and precision. He was a worker who fulfilled a dream. He was working to write. He made his dream become his work. He finally made money at it. He played his life like he bet on the horses when he walked out of his last job as an employee and he won. He was starting to get published with more seriousness. He said it himself, he finally got lucky. (A room of one's own, Virginia Wolfe) has an affinity with Buk's desire... verbalized in a very different style but still...
 
The great thing about Bukowski was there was no bullshit in his writing. He put it down, and had a natural talent for making it sound simple while still having it mean something. The other thing about him is that a lot of his stuff was shit. And even better, he knew it. He even admitted one time that a lot of his stuff is crap, but it's still way better than a lot of the flowery poems that are being published. If I had to break it down, I would say about 30% of his stuff was crap, 40% was really good, and 30% was fantastic. I especially enjoy "Night Torn Mad with Footsteps." That's probably the best collection of his poems, not to mention that it has my favorite Bukowski poem of all time, "A song with no name."
 
I don't think I will say anything very original, but here it goes...

1) The nakedness of his prose. He knew that there is a quiet beauty in simple sentences and simple words. Simple and austere, not simplistic.

2) The vulnerability of his writings about himself. Most humans spend their lives keeping up appearances and deceiving themselves about themselves. It takes someone with great strength of character to introspect with honesty and write down the findings for the world to read.

3) The deviance of the subjects in his books. Despite what many may think, Bukowski did not write about common things. He wrote about experiences and people that the average man either avoids deliberately or simply never encounters. Wanton sex, extreme drunkeness, skid row, flophouses--these things are not common for most people. Yet they are things about which most of us are curious, if only because they are mysterious to us.

4) This is probably more personal than the other reasons, but I think Bukowski relates to a certain type of human that few other authors relate to quite as well. Using the Myer-Briggs personality theory, that type of person is an INTJ: Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Judging. The type of person I have in mind is also pessimistic, but not cruel, and he has an overall tragic view of mankind and the world. He is probably also an atheist in the general sense of the term, lack of belief in gods.
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
His style is simple, it is him reflecting .The ideas are complexed but feel simple because completely bare, purified, filtered with nothing left but the essential. His intention is pure. To me reading him feels like he is talking to me with no bullshit. Bukowski is so brutally honest and human that even if when is describing something grotesque, it's not the grotesque that stick it is his honesty.

I think his soul is gentle, hiding under a nasty attitude. An attitude that he developped to survive his chilhood bruises, dealing with the drunks, the pretentious, the dumbs and the establishment that he hated.

He does not make up stories of people he does not know, it is about what he lives through and deals with from day to day. He is glorifying human nature, and human nature is what it is with its greatness and its weaknesses.

As if the simple truth bled by osmose through his soul.

Hey! this is hard to express, I am a painter
 

ROC

It is what it is
Yeah Black Swan - Bukowski does not make up stories of people he does not know, it is about what he lives through and deals with from day to day.

If you read the Sounes biography, you will see where Bukowski once interviewed a cannibal brought over from Africa who just ate his own wife, he was the coach of a baseball team that, for a short time, starred Jesus Christ and he once slept with a woman who had made love with every kind of creature on earth. She gave birth to a new species.

The list of fantastic, surreal stories (and poems) is as long as my arm.
Also... see point 3 (above) by southerngentleman.

And I think when you except human nature with all its beauty and all its ugliness, by definition, you do not glorify it. You simply deal with it. And that could mean soaring high or bloody railing, but you just deal with it.

I know, I know, the painter disclaimer probably excludes the option of pointing out that you what?.... have not read many Bukowski stories but really like the ones you have read?

Neat.
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Hi Roc

I am truly happy to hear from you, I appreciate your comments. I have read a lot of Bukowski. I am attaching a picture of my collection . I have learned something precious from Buk, and that is to look into my day to day life for inspiration. He has taught me to create images from my life experience.
Some of it strangely ressembles his. As you said you end up dealing with what you got. Ferron wrote "If it is snowing in Brooklyn, if you say it is snowing in Brooklyn, well if it is snowing in Brooklyn I'd say snow is what we got..."
As long as I am living I paint. Pretty people, ugly people, dreams, fears,
forgiveness. That what I have learned from Buk's writing. To use my life.

I remember that story where he moves in with a woman with the zoo and she dies giving birth to some creature part human, part tiger, snake .... good story a little like Eraser Head supposedly his favorite movie.

Collection0001.jpg
 

ROC

It is what it is
I have learned something precious from Buk, and that is to look into my day to day life for inspiration. He has taught me to create images from my life experience.
Some of it strangely ressembles his.

Are you showing your paintings anywhere?
Somewhat Buk inspired art sounds interesting.
Online I mean. I'd love a trip to Canada but... $$$:(

Maybe that's another idea for a book. Painting inspired by Bukowski - with the artists taking that whereever that leads them.

PS - Forgive my ignorance - who's Ferron?
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
I have a small shop where I restore antique furniture, that is where I show and sell my art.
You gave me an idea for a new thread. Paintings and sculptures inspired by Bukowski. I posted it but i can't get to open a bigger picture. Thanks.
 
cirerita - dug up this old thread and would like to add to it though it's perhaps far past what you're currently seeking. In reading Bukowski, he unleashes the typewriter like a biblical elder at the tyrannical father, the boils and scars, the awkward teen yearnings, the feelings of being a misfit, the solitude, the drunkenness, the whores, the broken relationships, the loss of loved ones, the beatings, the drudgery of work, insomnia, aches and pains, stupidity, phonies, clogged toilets and ignored landlords. And what makes him unique is that through the shit-storm of it all, he makes you laugh. I love this fucker, wish I knew him when he was alive.
 
Immidiately after WWII was not good climate in literature to publish Bukowski.

But when the beatnicks show up and hippy-movement and r'n'r was all
around in full strength ,then it became possible to publish him.

And Buk became famous at the age of 50+ , with stories from his
life originaly happened in 1940's , after decades of heavy drinking and
after he survived almost phatal ulcer bleeding in 1955.
Very UNIQUE case in literature and in life also, you must admit.
 

mjp

Founding member
But of course he was published post WWII and pre-beatniks or hippies, and those early publications are what went a long way toward changing the voice of American poetry. Just look at some of the magazines from the era, where Bukowski's work sticks out like a sore thumb.

And his near "phatal" bleeding ulcer was in 1954. That has been established through bills from the hospital and letters of the time. So yes, he started writing in greater volume at the same time the beatnik era was born, but it was his own personal experiences that brought that on, not any literary movement.

It's not an altogether inaccurate observation, but I think it's mistaken, as he became published more widely when he began to take his writing more seriously (1954). That the beatniks came in around that time is coincidence.

Of course he was published in beat and hippie rags, as well as traditional lit mags. And the "hippie" Los Angeles weeklies made him famous (in Los Angeles), but not until the hippie era was burning out.
 
In "Born into this" John Martin when they asked him how he
decided to publish Bukowski answered that he felt that in 1970's
will be audience for Buk.

Buk's style (practicly) is the same in 1944 and 1970 and in 1990 but public
was not ready to accept him in 1940's.

Also, unique about Buk are the reasons why he wrote:imagine
lonely, poor drunk with face full of scars, in small rented dirty flat,
what he can do on saturday and sunday nights?Watch TV?

Or to write poetry , where he can "scream a little bit" to
"laugh to life" and to "save his ass from the street" and where
he can "analyse what he done right or wrong" in his life.
Very UNIQUE reasons for writing.
 

mjp

Founding member
Well, I can't argue with any of that.









It's all wrong, mind you, but I can't argue with it.
 
It's all wrong, mind you, but I can't argue with it.

It is ok with me but I realy love to see quotations of good old Buk.

Interpretations never can be good as the real (original) thing.


For example , in "Hollywood" Buk wrote that despite all weird and
crazy things he done he always stayed normal.
Maybe not quite UNIQUE but rare and for all respect.
 
Bukowski wrote poetry that was unique, powerful, and innovative. I've read a lot of poetry and I agree with Bukowski that most of its sucks. And it's boring. Bukowki also wrote honestly and hid little.
 
It is very rare almost unique that writer describes all his life in his books.
Like Buk did it.

Let's see:
"Ham on ray" - events from early childhood until he left parents home in 1941
"Factotum" - his jobs all around USA from 1941 until steady job in post-office in 1955
"Post-office" - his life while he was employee in post-office (1955-1970)
"Women" - life as proffesional writer after quiting post-office (1970-1978)
"Hollywood" - life in mid 1980's
"Captain is out on lunch and sailors took over the ship" - last years in form of diary

Is there any part of his life not covered by his writing?
If anyone write down events from his life ,is it literature?
No, but if you underline in that events important issues and put
inside poetics and philosophical thaughts and make corelations
with other significant works of literature and philosophy than it becomes literature.
 
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mjp

Founding member
It is very rare almost unique that writer describes all his life in his books.
You're kidding, right?

Is there any part of his life not covered by his writing?
Yes.

You are basing your conclusions on a lot of myth and interpreting his work as strictly autobiographical, which it was not.
 
interpreting his work as strictly autobiographical, which it was not.

Bukowski said that 95% of his writing is real life and 5% is pure fiction.
What is the proper way to understand this statement?

In "Born into this" you have interview with postal clerk who worked with
Buk, same time same place, and is mentioned in "Post-office" under
the name "Tom Moto", and film director asks him is the book accurate?

"Yes , the book is accurate" was answer.

If someone likes Bukowski after some time it is easy to feel
in his works what realy happened and what is fiction.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Bukowski said that 95% of his writing is real life and 5% is pure fiction.
What is the proper way to understand this statement?

Well, there you have it! Some excellent scholars have proven you wrong. Just because Buk said it does not make it true, no matter how convinced you are of it.

In "Born into this" you have interview with postal clerk who worked with
Buk, same time same place, and is mentioned in "Post-office" under
the name "Tom Moto", and film director asks him is the book accurate?

"Yes , the book is accurate" was answer.

I guess that a guy that knew him a little bit 40 years ago as a clerk at a job of his knows more than decades of intensive research and truth.

If someone likes Bukowski after some time it is easy to feel in his works what realy happened and what is fiction.

You can believe the Bukowski myth if you want to. That is fine, but you will have a much harder time trying to convince us all that you are right when you are wrong. Sorry, not to be a ball buster, but saying that "liking" Bukowski makes it easy to know what is truth and what is fiction (in a book of fiction) is vain and wrong. Look around on this forum and you will see that things like Buk always being broke was a myth, as was the 10 year drunk. There are many more myths, but I cannot recreate decades of research and all of the postings on this forum to prove it.

Bukowski is my favorite writer, but I also know that he exaggerated much and made up much to make stories more interesting. What is what writers do.

Bill

p.s. Many of us know many of the people that were his friends, lovers, publishers. They are far more reliable in confirming what is real and what is not than a guy at the post office that was an acquantence of Buk's 40 years ago.
 
Many of us know many of the people that were his friends, lovers, publishers.

Well, the film "Born into this" is full of his former wifes, publishers and lovers.

And it is DOCUMENTARY film.

Made in 2004, with intention to collect memories of people conected with Bukowski before they leave this world because of age.
My picture of Buk was same before and after watching this film, and impression that Chinaski/Bukowski is (almost) the same person stayed.


It would be nice if others can leave their impression after they watched film.

And I forgot to mention above ,
"Sheakspeare never did this " - his voyage thru France and Germany in 1979
equiped with photos of M. Montfort has a taste of unique genre , something
like crossover betwen literature and document
 
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