What would Bukowski think of modern culture?

[Ewok]

Good point - and most of the people who say 'you can do anything!' are either people who had a background in the entertainment medium or business medium.

There aren't really that many interesting success stories...I listen to podcasts and read a blog here and there but it's probably most beneficial to people who were already established in some way before it blew up in that it gave them other options.

I dunno...

But yeah Bukowski was a more everyman plodding kind of dude in some ways ...the day to day grind of sending letters and writing everyday...more than the drinking that's probably would should influence people

 

[5:28am]

I think the whole "you can do anything" talk mostly comes from adults when talking to children. When you grow up they change their tune because suddenly all those ambitious kids have become a threat to their own position. Then you realize that the world doesn't want another CEO, it wants part-time cashiers working two or three jobs.

 

[tony walton]

Sure, EVERYONE can have a blog, and everyone can post on-line. But there's so much noise out there (well, noise being anything that I didn't say, of course), that it is almost impossible to be heard above the cacophony.

Yea, there is alot of noise. But there was alot of noise then. And the 'smalls' he submitted to had scant circulation. I'd say he would be bigger now with the internet/twitter - he was TIRELESS in his pursuit of avenue. Reading his letters leads me to think he was compulsive in his writing. He also understood his niche and more importantly stuck to that niche.

 

[Gary Eisenberg]

Good point - VERY good point. That's true. About the "noise" then - versus now. And I also tend to agree with you about his tirelessness in his pursuit. Interesting dichotomy, though...on the one hand, he often said "Don't try. " And on the other hand, he managed to keep trying...

 

[mjp]

Would Mark Twain appear on the Bill Maher show?

I was thinking about this thread and the real answer to the question is it doesn't matter. Because there was no web during Bukowski's lifetime. May as well ask how he would have got his work published if he lived in the middle ages, or "What would Bukowski's poems sound like if he typed them on Mars?"

We are all products of the time we live in. Times change and people who don't change with them get left behind and die off. Then it starts all over again. The only constant is a pretty girl and a good steak. Those are the only things you could talk to, say, a Viking about, because it's all we have in common over the span of a thousand years.

 

[Short Bus]

Those are the only things you could talk to, say, a Viking about

And Blood Eagles!!!

 

[nado]

Would Mark Twain appear on the Bill Maher show?

I was thinking about this thread and the real answer to the question is it doesn't matter. Because there was no web during Bukowski's lifetime. May as well ask how he would have got his work published if he lived in the middle ages, or "What would Bukowski's poems sound like if he typed them on Mars?"

We are all products of the time we live in. Times change and people who don't change with them get left behind and die off. Then it starts all over again. The only constant is a pretty girl and a good steak. Those are the only things you could talk to, say, a Viking about, because it's all we have in common over the span of a thousand years.

My sentiments precisely.

 

[Otto jr]

Buk would be sitting in the grandstand and he would haul the iPhone out of his pocket to write poems in the "notes" section, then he'd email or text them from there straight to the sparrow.

 

[alonewiththegods]

God the modern day world is a disgusting mess. This generation truly sickens me. I think a more important question is whether Bukowski would have even been accepted in the modern day, he would probably have been bombarded by feminists and other so called liberals, defaming him as a misogynistic rape supporter unaware of his white privilege as part of the patriarchy or whatever other nonsense they like to drag up. I think Bukowski at first might have utilised social media in substitute for the little magazines but soon enough he would become fed up with the madness, stupidity, hypocrisy and witch hunts he witnessed online. After all he would have to share social media with the rest of society, it is a universal medium, unlike the little magazines which were more of a quiet, one way outlet. But who knows, I'm kind of glad Bukowski is not alive to see the world as it is today.

Also Ewok does say some idiotic shit, but he also brings up some interesting points, even if they are mostly bones of contention. It gives us on here something to chew apart and by god you lot do love chewing people apart. Ewok is not responsible for the stupidity of his generation and he can hardly fix it on his own. I think its a step in the right direction the fact that he's on here exploring Bukowski rather than tweeting about his favorite manufactured band or uploading some dumb selfie or whatever other vain, meaningless pursuit kids do these days. Of course he could also be doing all those vapid, shallow things as well as posting on here, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also in response to Ewok - I don't think anybody respects these insta 'celebrities' who now have a voice on the internet... we are just aware of them. we are aware of them in away we weren't before. Unfortunately.

P.S I can't stand kanye or franco and I can't understand how anyone could put a tortured literary genius like Buk in the same sentence as those soulless, narcissistic divas.

 

[mjp]

by god you lot do love chewing people apart.

He says, as he chews apart an entire generation.

I've never seen a reasonable person of any age or persuasion be chewed apart here. So maybe you should rephrase that. Change "people" to "idiots" or something. Just a thought.

 

[alonewiththegods]

Most 'people' are idiots! that goes without saying MJP I would have thought you knew that by now.
Yes I chewed apart a generation, as have most others on this thread! Nothing I said on this board was untrue,
Yet here you are chewing me (check me with the fancy italics) for being honest and proving me right in the process, So thanks chief ;)

BTW what is your take on how Buk would have gone down in todays PC Society? Would he have even bothered?

 

[mjp]

Saying "you lot" somehow leaves you out of the equation, doesn't it. Your attempted deflection now just makes you look like a coward, skipper.

what is your take

I already told you.

 

[alonewiththegods]

I'm not attempting to deflect anything, I was merely pointing out that guys like Ewok get a lot of shit on here and while some of his statements might be misguided, he strikes me as harmless, yet people still love to stick the knife in. Of course I knew posting that would draw negative attention in my direction but I did it anyway. If thats your definition of cowardice then so be it. This thread is full of grouchy old men, but at least its authentic, thats one of the many things I like about this forum. Whats more befitting of Bukowski then grumpy old men?

So do you think Bukowski would have died off and been left behind or do you think he would have changed with the times and possibly censored himself?
I guess it's all what ifs anyway... So we'll never know, but I do wonder what he would have written if he saw the world in its current state today.

 

[mjp]

do you think he would have changed with the times and possibly censored himself?

He already answered that for you too.

He grew up in the 20s and 30s, and wrote into the 90s. That spans one of the greatest times of change in the history of people. Did he change his underlying message in that time?

The term "politically correct" (as you're applying it) started being used in the 70s. So he wrote into a vast sea of political correctness for 20 years. Did he censor himself?

 

[alonewiththegods]

It's reassuring to know he probably wouldn't have censored himself. I guess the question would be whether John Martin, who already famously censored Bukowski as it is (a crime you have covered extensively if I recall rightly), would even bother publishing Bukowski knowing the onslaught of hysteria it would provoke from the 'Politically Correct' masses running rampant online.

 

[Black Swan]

I think that his feelings toward mankind would be the same.
Just a different decor.

 

[5:28am]

What would Bukowski think of Bukowskiforum? :eek:

 

[skiroomalum]

Tech/industrial progress doesn't equate to the progress of humanity as a whole. There are just faster and easier methods that will dissemanate to a much broader audience one's idiocy or mediocrity. You can re-invent the wheel as many times as you like, but there is still usually an asshole steering it.

 

[mjp]

Tech/industrial progress doesn't equate to the progress of humanity as a whole.

Women in America couldn't vote until two days after Bukowski was born. He was 45 years old before black people could vote in the south without staring into a shotgun barrel as they tried to enter the polling place.

The year I was born the Andy Griffith Show and My Three Sons were the top shows on TV. Leave it to Beaver was on every day after school. 11 years later, everyone in America was watching All in the Family. Four years after that, Saturday Night Live (which was actually culturally subversive then).

We went from people lining up to join the military after Pearl Harbor to hippies burning their draft cards in front of the Washington monument in a span of only 25 years.

The average kid working behind the counter of a coffee shop now could have been a sideshow attraction in the freak tent 50 years ago.

Is that progress? For some. It's certainly change. So the 20th century wasn't just about technology moving quickly. Everything moved (relatively) quickly. A lot of you are old enough to remember the 60s and 70s, and the feeling back then was that everything was changing. It was more likely nothing but a swing of the pendulum, but shit was crazy, and shit felt crazy all the time.

As far as political correctness is concerned, only old white men use the term "politically correct," and we're nearing extinction. Or at least the end of our reign of terror. Later in the century we're living in right now, white rule will end virtually everywhere, and then you won't have to worry about people chiding you for being racist or sexist. They won't care because your opinion won't matter anymore.


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Aiieee, boy....this coffee is really strong. It's making my typing fingers work overtime. You couldn't get coffee like this in the 50s!

 

[Short Bus]

What would Buk have thought of 17th century Laos, France or Turducken for that matter?