Whatever you do - do not recommend Bukowski work to your boss

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pigmantoo

Well, I wonder who among us is really qualified to evaluate the ghetto and ghetto life...
I am certainly not qualified to evaluate ghetto life, but I do some pro bono work for a non profit that has many homeless people. Some are totally out of it, on drugs, mental problems, etc. But some have a really rich background which suprised me when I first started doing some work with them about 7 years ago. Recently one homeless women challenged me to spend 5 days homeless in LA and see how I would do. I am seriously considering this challenge as I believe it would add a certain depth of knowledge to my background. I believe it takes one tough person to live on the street for any extended period of time and I want that enlightenment, I want to know how it feels. And I know that the ghetto and homeless are not interchangable, but I thought I would enlighten you as to my background.
 

mjp

Founding member
...I want to know how it feels.
What are you, George Plimpton (look it up, kids)?

That's very noble I guess, but hitting the street for X number of days won't tell you anything about how it "feels." You will always know that it's temporary and in X days you will be sitting back on your couch with a big sandwich and a beer watching a Friends rerun. You will not feel any hopelessness or despair as a tourist. You have to lose everything and be there involuntarily to know how it feels.
 
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BicycleTragedy

Recently one homeless women challenged me to spend 5 days homeless in LA and see how I would do. I am seriously considering this challenge as I believe it would add a certain depth of knowledge to my background. I believe it takes one tough person to live on the street for any extended period of time and I want that enlightenment, I want to know how it feels.

You should have challenged her to live like a person with a job for 5 days. Just for laughs.

No but seriously, that's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
 
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BicycleTragedy

Thinking about it a little more, I think there must be a mixed attitude of the homeless toward the social workers, the soup kitcheneers, the change givers, the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, the YMCA.

Obviously there is gratitude but probably also they feel a sense of being condescended to. Most of them are probably very bitter, I don't know. I'm fortunate enough to have never literally been homeless but I would not crave the lifestyle even as a learning experience, or to fortify my soul or whatever. I doubt many of the actual homeless feel fortified, or educated. And what could you really learn from them anyway, in 5 days?

Some are complete assholes, some are prideless beggars, some are very meek and mind their own business, some are total raving lunatics.

No one knows what their world is like and it seems woefully arrogant to try to get in there unless you REALLY get in there, or have really been there, and NOT just as an 'experiment.'

If a homeless woman gave me that 5-day challenge though, I'd be very dubious about her motives for challenging me. Was she really trying to help me relate to her? Or was she just bitter and jaded and self-pitying and wanted me to rub my own face in my smug ignorance that I disguised as charity?

I'd probably go home and think about it.
 

number6horse

okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
OK - I hear you, pigmantoo. That would be a hell of a challenge to take up and it would probably be beneficial to do that. To get a taste of what those homeless clients of the non-profit go through.... wow - Gotta admit right now, I don't think I could.

Or I would take 5 days worth of food and supplies to an abandoned area within the city limits and just camp. With a couple of bodyguards. That would count, wouldn't it ? ;)
 
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BENPLEASANTS

The transformed man

My posts are visible only to myself. I love it!

I think I'll call up Bukowski's former publisher (or maybe I should contact ECCO) and ask if I can publish some Buk stuff on cheap paper illustrated by talentless friends. When my proposal is refused, I'll post angry insults denouncing the arrogant protection of the Buk brand. Whee!

I'll also belittle any person or organisation that manages to embark upon a successful Buk-related activity, such as a Buk Bus Tour or getting his former dwelling landmarked.

I'm a bitter failed musician, artist and writer. I am TRANSFORMED!
 
There was a local member of Parliament where I live in the UK who, back in the 80s, spent two weeks living on state benefits, in council housing just to demonstrate that it was possible to eat well, save a little for a rainy day etc. He just came across as a patronising twat for reasons similar to the ones mjp mentions, i.e. it was a temporary arrangement and he would soon be back in his nice big cosy house. I'm sure you'd be doing it with the best intentions etc. but, personally, I'd stick to your very commendable voluntary work as that's actually doing some of these people some good. But hey, it's your decision ;)
 
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pigmantoo

What are you, George Plimpton (look it up, kids)?

That's very noble I guess, but hitting the street for X number of days won't tell you anything about how it "feels." You will always know that it's temporary and in X days you will be sitting back on your couch with a big sandwich and a beer watching a Friends rerun. You will not feel any hopelessness or despair as a tourist. You have to lose everything and be there involuntarily to know how it feels.
mjp -

Yes, it will be temporary, but I do believe I can feel something. I am interested in how others will relate to me like the police, business people walking to their jobs, etc and how will that make me feel. Sure, I will just be a tourist but don't tourists get a little bit of a feel of the country they visit?

My main focus is accepting a challenge that I believe will help me understand what my clients live everyday. I will have no money and no ID. Just me on the street. I have to figure out how the get shelter, food, etc. without getting killed.

George Plimpton - no, but maybe John Howard Griffin. And, no I am not going to write a book about it.

PS - I never watch Friends, nor have I experienced total despair, just major despair and have experienced hopelessness in that I had a child that died and I could do nothing to save her.

Thinking about it a little more, I think there must be a mixed attitude of the homeless toward the social workers, the soup kitcheneers, the change givers, the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, the YMCA.

Obviously there is gratitude but probably also they feel a sense of being condescended to. Most of them are probably very bitter, I don't know. I'm fortunate enough to have never literally been homeless but I would not crave the lifestyle even as a learning experience, or to fortify my soul or whatever. I doubt many of the actual homeless feel fortified, or educated. And what could you really learn from them anyway, in 5 days?

Some are complete assholes, some are prideless beggars, some are very meek and mind their own business, some are total raving lunatics.

No one knows what their world is like and it seems woefully arrogant to try to get in there unless you REALLY get in there, or have really been there, and NOT just as an 'experiment.'

If a homeless woman gave me that 5-day challenge though, I'd be very dubious about her motives for challenging me. Was she really trying to help me relate to her? Or was she just bitter and jaded and self-pitying and wanted me to rub my own face in my smug ignorance that I disguised as charity?

I'd probably go home and think about it.
I am a lawyer by profession and I work with the homeless (admittedly not all the time) to get government benefits they may be entitled, like SSI or SSDI, state programs, Medi-Cal, etc. You are right in that there is a mixed attitude by the homeless toward people that work in this area of social work. These attitudes range from total hate (and I mean total hate) to some begrudging acceptance. Most who I have worked with suffer from extreme drug addiction coupled with mental problems. They have backgrounds that vary from a Catholic Priest to engineer to business man to prostitute, to hard core criminal. Drug dealers really take advantage of them. On the 1st or the 3rd of each month (if the 1st or the 3rd are on week days) its fun to watch all the Cadillac Escalades show up on skid row. Gee, I wonder why?

The homeless woman that gave me that challenge is the mother of 8 children, most through rape or casual encounters. She suffers from extreme drug addiction, the heavy stuff, like meth, the big H, etc. She has been clean for about 9 months and her social worker was discussing a potential job, Cal-Works, Goodwill, etc. She first through out the challenge to her social worker then me because I was in the room at the time. She explained how difficult it was to even get to work, it you had a job and were homeless to say nothing of personal hygiene, etc.

I really have not seen much self-pity in them. They seem happy with their drugs. To many that's all they want. Give me my meth and leave me alone.
Woefully arrogant? Maybe I am, I really don't know at this point. I am not a do good'r. I can't do this in LA because to many people know me there, I was going to go to Santa Ana or some other close by area which admittedly may not be comparable to LA.

You should have challenged her to live like a person with a job for 5 days. Just for laughs.

No but seriously, that's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
Gayest thing you have heard? WFT are you talking about?

OK - I hear you, pigmantoo. That would be a hell of a challenge to take up and it would probably be beneficial to do that. To get a taste of what those homeless clients of the non-profit go through.... wow - Gotta admit right now, I don't think I could.

Or I would take 5 days worth of food and supplies to an abandoned area within the city limits and just camp. With a couple of bodyguards. That would count, wouldn't it ? ;)
Hey number6hourse,

That is my biggest concern, safety. On Skid Row, LA, there are lots and lots of assaults, some killings, etc.

There was a local member of Parliament where I live in the UK who, back in the 80s, spent two weeks living on state benefits, in council housing just to demonstrate that it was possible to eat well, save a little for a rainy day etc. He just came across as a patronising twat for reasons similar to the ones mjp mentions, i.e. it was a temporary arrangement and he would soon be back in his nice big cosy house. I'm sure you'd be doing it with the best intentions etc. but, personally, I'd stick to your very commendable voluntary work as that's actually doing some of these people some good. But hey, it's your decision ;)
Hi Bruno Dante -

You have stated is one of my biggest concerns, that is why I am not going to write about it, or even discuss it with any concerned parties. It is just going to be knowledge for myself kept to myself. I have always believed that it is not so important what you do as what you get done. I do a lot for these clients, but not much winds up as positive results - like staying clean, job, education, shelter, better future, etc. I just trying to figure out why.

Thanks for your post - spent some time in the UK and loved it. Hope to get back there this summer.
 
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BicycleTragedy

Gayest thing you have heard? WFT are you talking about?

It's contrived. It's contrived as fuck and it's stupid, and I don't care to discuss it further.

It's nothing against you; it's the concept of the 5 day challenge. If I have to explain it then there's no point; the point is already lost and it doesn't matter.

You seem like a good guy. Have at it, if you like.
 
The idea isn't as contrived or exploitative as a British TV show which put 'celebreties' on the streets to see how they would cope. Unfortunately, they all made it out alive to cry into the camera.

I don't know how much you'd get out of it though. If you work with the homeless then I'm sure you're aware of a lot of what they go through. I woke up drunk in a shop doorway once, which gave me enough perspective to know I'd never want to sleep on the streets.

Good luck if you decide to do it,
 
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