Yep, it's a general rock and metal mag. I read it religiously as an early teen. Now I look at it and kid myself into thinking it was a lot better when I was that age.
It wasn't.
It wasn't.
When did you discover Bukowski?
- Thread starter mjp
- Start date
In the late 70's , I had a PTSD Vietnam Vet buddy with a knock out
stripper girlfriend. I (being a young idiot ) didn't respect her or her
intelligence. She read Bukowski I and poo pooed it.
Cut to 2006. Was I an idiot or what? I think the years have beaten me
up so I can appreciate "The Buk." The stripper had the last laugh.
Hello Father Luke!
stripper girlfriend. I (being a young idiot ) didn't respect her or her
intelligence. She read Bukowski I and poo pooed it.
Cut to 2006. Was I an idiot or what? I think the years have beaten me
up so I can appreciate "The Buk." The stripper had the last laugh.
Hello Father Luke!
was convalescing in a hospital bed after an attempted suicide in my early 20's (too much info?) sister brought me a copy of "Love Is A Dog From Hell" and i felt as though i'd found, if not a kindred spirit, then just something that mattered.
M
MULLINAX
A buddy of mine from South Dakota kept POST OFFICE in his crapper so that's where I first read Bukowski, way back in 1980. The apartment stank of 50 years of cat piss and the toilet was even worse so I ran off to a used bookstore and bought it. Still have it. Still read it. And yes, it's full of tomato and coffee stains. My pal thought Bukowski was only fit for immature adolescents and boys still looking for their first kiss. Funny thing is, he swore that CATCHER IN THE RYE was superior to anything Buk ever did. But this was before HAM ON RYE so maybe he's changed his mind.
ROC
It is what it is
M
MULLINAX
You can easily rebut them by mentioning FACTOTUM and Buk's take on "THE JOB".
There's nothing juvenile about his descriptions and critique of lower-class life.
The motherfuckers that dare to disrespect Buk are probably Salinger fans and adore Holden Caulfield, not because they were once preppies themselves, but because they have been told by ex-preppy critics (who were themselves once scared shitless punks) to do so.
There's nothing juvenile about his descriptions and critique of lower-class life.
The motherfuckers that dare to disrespect Buk are probably Salinger fans and adore Holden Caulfield, not because they were once preppies themselves, but because they have been told by ex-preppy critics (who were themselves once scared shitless punks) to do so.
mjp
Founding member
I always thought the underlying theme of Factotum was a criticism of the way labor is exploited in America.
I never read anything Bukowski wrote as a critique of "lower class" life. He described it without criticism. Quite the opposite in fact, he made the refusal to work (or at least the refusal to give in to work) seem noble.
ROC
It is what it is
I hear you mjp and agree with what you say, but I took Mulls use of the word 'critique' in the neutral sense. As in to analyse or discuss 'with a critical eye', rather than in the more commonly accepted negative sense.
A tedious dictionary.com excerpt;
Usage Note: Critique has been used as a verb meaning "to review or discuss critically" since the 18th century, but lately this usage has gained much wider currency, in part because the verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. But this use of critique is still regarded by many as pretentious jargon, although resistance appears to be weakening. In our 1997 ballot, 41 percent of the Usage Panel rejected the sentence As mock inquisitors grill him, top aides take notes and critique the answers with the President afterward. Ten years earlier, 69 percent disapproved of this same sentence. Resistance is still high when a person is critiqued: 60 percent of the Usage Panel rejects its use in the sentence Students are taught how to do a business plan and then are critiqued on it. Thus, it may be preferable to avoid this word. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze. · Note, however, that critique is widely accepted as a noun in a neutral context; 86 percent of the Panel approved of its use in the sentence The committee gave the report a thorough critique and found it both informed and intelligent.
A tedious dictionary.com excerpt;
Usage Note: Critique has been used as a verb meaning "to review or discuss critically" since the 18th century, but lately this usage has gained much wider currency, in part because the verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. But this use of critique is still regarded by many as pretentious jargon, although resistance appears to be weakening. In our 1997 ballot, 41 percent of the Usage Panel rejected the sentence As mock inquisitors grill him, top aides take notes and critique the answers with the President afterward. Ten years earlier, 69 percent disapproved of this same sentence. Resistance is still high when a person is critiqued: 60 percent of the Usage Panel rejects its use in the sentence Students are taught how to do a business plan and then are critiqued on it. Thus, it may be preferable to avoid this word. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze. · Note, however, that critique is widely accepted as a noun in a neutral context; 86 percent of the Panel approved of its use in the sentence The committee gave the report a thorough critique and found it both informed and intelligent.
Father Luke
Founding member
Q.) Why did the Holden Caulfield preppy cross the road?
A.) You told him to.
Q.) Why did the Charles Bukowski reader cross the road?
A.) Fuck off, I go where I please.
number6horse
okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
I don't view Holden Caulfield in opposition to Hank/Buk/Chinaski...
I was entertained and enlightened by both - in fact I say Salinger just screamed more politely than Buk chose to. Both of them were influences though ,I was under the influence of JD Sal9nger at one point.
I was entertained and enlightened by both - in fact I say Salinger just screamed more politely than Buk chose to. Both of them were influences though ,I was under the influence of JD Sal9nger at one point.
M
MULLINAX
It'a hard knock life...
Critique means 'description' or 'discussion' or 'review', not criticism.
You're absolutely right about the "refusal" to work part. Buk's lower "low-grade" jobs were awful, and it is the sign of a free man to refuse to work for nothing.
As far as Buk's working life is concerned, I must take issue with his disparaging remarks about Orwell; "compared to me he wasn't even scratched". 200 million Europeans, including Orwell, had a much tougher time of it from '42 - '45 than Buk had in Philadelphia. Buk had it easy in that bar - while a million people starved to death in Leningrad. Buk had it easy in his rooming house - while 200,000 Serbs were being executed by the Fascist Ustasha Croats. I could go on and on. ("PLEASE STOP", I hear you say). Ok, I will
Critique means 'description' or 'discussion' or 'review', not criticism.
You're absolutely right about the "refusal" to work part. Buk's lower "low-grade" jobs were awful, and it is the sign of a free man to refuse to work for nothing.
As far as Buk's working life is concerned, I must take issue with his disparaging remarks about Orwell; "compared to me he wasn't even scratched". 200 million Europeans, including Orwell, had a much tougher time of it from '42 - '45 than Buk had in Philadelphia. Buk had it easy in that bar - while a million people starved to death in Leningrad. Buk had it easy in his rooming house - while 200,000 Serbs were being executed by the Fascist Ustasha Croats. I could go on and on. ("PLEASE STOP", I hear you say). Ok, I will
mjp
Founding member
Oh, I see how it is. Now we're using the dictionary to define words. Whatever.
Because if he didn't the book would have no ending?
Father Luke
Founding member
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
That is the best message F.Luke has given yet. Wow that looks like fluke. You Mother Fluker;)
However; the dog should be chasing it's tail, instead.
However; the dog should be chasing it's tail, instead.
Father Luke
Founding member
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Orwell certainly got "scratched" in the Spanish civil war! According to his book, "Homage To Catalonia", he got shot through the neck at the frontlines.
His book, "Down And Out In Paris And London" does'nt seem to have been a picnic either...
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non compos mentis
Supporting good poetry
The first Bukowski I ever read was the poem, "The Aliens." Next, I read a clip from Ham on Rye about the white cat that was about to be killed by the dog with everyone watching. Both pieces were found online. They turned me off Bukowski and I didn't try to read any more for several years.
Being a Tom Waits fan I discovered he was a follower of Buk, so I thought I'd give him another chance. A friend loaned me Ham on Rye at Thanksgiving. I thoroughly enjoyed it and begged for more. He loaned me Postoffice while I ordered a bunch of stuff from amazon.com. Next I read Factotum, Hollywood, Women, Sometimes You Get so Alone, Play the Piano, Last Night of the Earth, and Cherkovski's bio, Hank. I bought an expensive copy of Barfly DVD, The Bukowski Tapes, Factotum DVD, and two CDs of Buk reading his work.
I am currently reading Screams from the Balcony and Notes from a Dirty Old Man. My bookshelf if growing and now includes all the books that are easily available. I will probably, at some point, start searching for the more collectable pieces. I'm already lusting after It Catches My Heart -- Loujon Press.
BTW: the cat clip from Ham on Rye still bothers me. I just got off to a bad start way back then.
Being a Tom Waits fan I discovered he was a follower of Buk, so I thought I'd give him another chance. A friend loaned me Ham on Rye at Thanksgiving. I thoroughly enjoyed it and begged for more. He loaned me Postoffice while I ordered a bunch of stuff from amazon.com. Next I read Factotum, Hollywood, Women, Sometimes You Get so Alone, Play the Piano, Last Night of the Earth, and Cherkovski's bio, Hank. I bought an expensive copy of Barfly DVD, The Bukowski Tapes, Factotum DVD, and two CDs of Buk reading his work.
I am currently reading Screams from the Balcony and Notes from a Dirty Old Man. My bookshelf if growing and now includes all the books that are easily available. I will probably, at some point, start searching for the more collectable pieces. I'm already lusting after It Catches My Heart -- Loujon Press.
BTW: the cat clip from Ham on Rye still bothers me. I just got off to a bad start way back then.
I think the first Bukowski book I ever read was probably the reissue of "Ham On Rye" with the introduction by Roddy someone or other.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
I first saw Born Into This and was so intrigued that I began pausing the DVD to read the text on pictures of his writings. I took my daughter's copy of Women and read it staight thru and then I was given Run with the Hunted as a gift. Run with the Hunted is a good one to start with, it made by all the books it has stories and poems from. Now I have read just enough Bukowski to be dangerous.
Mine was Women, when I was in high school. My best buddy gave it to me and I was so amazed that I hardly waited to read another one. I dug out Ham on Rye and I definitely fell in love with Buk`s art, prose first and then poetry as well. I liked his raw style, his description of real life his open attitude. I still enjoy reading his works, I usually read them in English now, and have a totally different feeling comparing the time when I was reading the translations in Serbian. I began collecting originals as well, I got War all the time from the USA, and last year I bought Run with the hunted at Belgrade`s book fair. The good news is that the originals finally showed up there, I saw Hot water music, Pulp, Women, poetry book collection, Ham on rye, Buk`s biography...Those originals will be mine this year for sure.
M
MULLINAX
Hey Joe, Hey Joe (you know the rest). I have some spare softcovers that I could send you. They're in pretty beat up shape, but Hey Joe, it's so appropriate.
I managed to score a lot of stamps from THE JOB so I could mail them to you gratis.
I managed to score a lot of stamps from THE JOB so I could mail them to you gratis.
That would be nice of you. I`ll send you my address.
First Book
Post Office...I know, I know...pretty well known and popular. But it got me into Bukowski and I haven't looked back. It was a great day when I stumbled upon his shelf at the bookstore because I have yet to find a writer that can keep me hooked like Buk. Since then I've read 10 others and my favorite has to be "Ham on Rye." There all top notch, though.
Post Office...I know, I know...pretty well known and popular. But it got me into Bukowski and I haven't looked back. It was a great day when I stumbled upon his shelf at the bookstore because I have yet to find a writer that can keep me hooked like Buk. Since then I've read 10 others and my favorite has to be "Ham on Rye." There all top notch, though.
Father Luke
Founding member
Baldy, you might not be so bad after all.
__________________
So shines a good dead in a weary world. - Willy Wonka
M
MULLINAX
Does FL need any softcovers?