What are your thoughts on making a movie out of WOMEN? Why hasn't it been done? Could it be done well?
WOMEN movie
- Thread starter Kaptain Kvetch
- Start date
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
It would not be as good as the original and I find it very hard to imagine that any studio would touch it. It would almost certainly generate some serious lawsuits. His thinly veiled masking of the identity of the women involved would fool no one and much of what he wrote was very personal and of some dispute by the people involved. Bukowski wrote fictional accounts, but it was always assumed to be fact by readers, especially the masses that know him only by his reputation or that have not read much of his work. Many of the women written about could claim that their reputation was damaged by it and they would probably have a case. They could not sue about the book, because of the time involved, but it would probably start the clock again if it was made into a movie.
Plus, the book is better than any movie that they could make from it. No reason to fuck with a good thing...
bill
Plus, the book is better than any movie that they could make from it. No reason to fuck with a good thing...
bill
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Yes, that "disclaimer", which you see on almost all works of fiction would not protect you. It is more meant when an author really makes up the characters and does not just rename people and then base the fiction, loosely or not, on them. Imagine that you have a history of writing books that are more fact than fiction, even if it is not the case. Imagine putting that disclaimer in a book and then naming a character intended to be, say, Arnold Schwartzaneggar. You call him Albert Schwartzentuber. You give him a Austrian accent, and make him a former bodybuilder, turned actor, turned politician. You then write a fictitious "story" about how he likes having sex with 6 year old boys. Most people reading the book would understand that this character was based on Arnold and would ASSUME that it was all true, even though you just said that it is made up. Politicians are usually fair game and have a tough time suing for libel or defamation of character. Non celebrities would have an easier time. When these women dated Bukowski they did not put themselves out there into the public (although they could have assumed that they would be written about, sure.)
If the movie became a smash hit (which it would not), any of the women portrayed could say that they were damaged by a libelous portrayal of them. Anyone that knows them, would know that it was them with a little name change.
If you REALLY did write a piece of true fiction and then someone came out of the woodwork that the author did not know or know of, and they sued, claming that the character was based on them, the author could claim intellectual copyright on the character, even if the real life person existed (there being billions of people on the earth, there is a good chance that anyone that you invent will have a close, if not exact real life person somewhere.)
If the movie became a smash hit (which it would not), any of the women portrayed could say that they were damaged by a libelous portrayal of them. Anyone that knows them, would know that it was them with a little name change.
If you REALLY did write a piece of true fiction and then someone came out of the woodwork that the author did not know or know of, and they sued, claming that the character was based on them, the author could claim intellectual copyright on the character, even if the real life person existed (there being billions of people on the earth, there is a good chance that anyone that you invent will have a close, if not exact real life person somewhere.)
No offense, but you're full of shit, baby.
We're talking about adapting a novel that has existed in the public domain for 30+ years. If there was a lawsuit to be brought, it would be against Bukowski for writing about these women in the first place, and it would have been done already. That's WHY there is that disclaimer at the beginning of the book. That's WHY the names in the story have been changed. There is no danger of a lawsuit in adapting this novel.
So I ask again: would you want to see WOMEN on the big screen?
We're talking about adapting a novel that has existed in the public domain for 30+ years. If there was a lawsuit to be brought, it would be against Bukowski for writing about these women in the first place, and it would have been done already. That's WHY there is that disclaimer at the beginning of the book. That's WHY the names in the story have been changed. There is no danger of a lawsuit in adapting this novel.
So I ask again: would you want to see WOMEN on the big screen?
Ha. And why is that?
mjp
Founding member
Look at you. Posing at the racetrack with a cigar in your mouth. You're a joke, who could take you seriously?
You're also an unsuccessful screenwriter, which I know you think is only a temporary thing, but you'll always be unsuccessful, even though screenwriting is the kind of plug-and-play "creativity" that suits a clueless bonehead like yourself perfectly. You have a vague plan to adapt Women, and that plan will fail as well. Not because someone else already owns the rights, but because the work is way, way beyond you. You are a nothing little boy in a man's world.
So that's Ethan Furman in a nutshell. And an answer to your question of "why?" Though I'm sure you'll have more questions. Your kind always does. All you have is questions. And dead meat between your ears.
You're also an unsuccessful screenwriter, which I know you think is only a temporary thing, but you'll always be unsuccessful, even though screenwriting is the kind of plug-and-play "creativity" that suits a clueless bonehead like yourself perfectly. You have a vague plan to adapt Women, and that plan will fail as well. Not because someone else already owns the rights, but because the work is way, way beyond you. You are a nothing little boy in a man's world.
So that's Ethan Furman in a nutshell. And an answer to your question of "why?" Though I'm sure you'll have more questions. Your kind always does. All you have is questions. And dead meat between your ears.
Whoa. Such vitriol. How do you know me so well, MJP? And what are you so angry about?
mjp
Founding member
Easy, because you're a type, and likely not a person of any depth or substance. It's not your fault, those are just the cards you were dealt. Easy cards. And you'll play them to some moderate wealth somehow, grinding out more shit for idiots to consume and dispose of. Maybe an episode or two of Entourage or Californication, if you're particularly lucky. And you'll feel good, for the most part. But a tiny part of you will always crave the credibility you can never have. That little unfulfilled spark will drive you to continue to try and create something great. But you will always fall short. Again, not your fault.
Sorry to peg you right out of the box, but it's a gift I have. Unfortunately for you and other Hollywood/Internet/Real Life caricatures like you, I can't ignore it or it will wither and die. I don't expect you to understand, but therein lies what little unintentional charm you have.
I invite you to prove me wrong, of course. I am an honest man (for the most part), and I can certainly admit when I have been wrong or unnecessarily harsh.
---
Sorry to derail this conversation though. Let's get back to the topic at hand, as it is compelling and interesting. Tell us about your proposed treatment for Women. Stop beating around the bush and endearing yourself to everyone and get to the point. I can see that you and I will be very good friends, but you have to work with me here. Come on, man.
You must be a real delight at dinner parties.
Hey man, you caught me. Congratulations on being psychic. I'm a screenwriter and Bukowski fan speculating on the notion of a WOMEN movie, and was gauging interest. Sorry to be such a pathetic cliche. Not all of us have the imagination to dream up unique, never-before-seen personalities, like, say, "Angry Internet Chat Room Nerd."
Hey man, you caught me. Congratulations on being psychic. I'm a screenwriter and Bukowski fan speculating on the notion of a WOMEN movie, and was gauging interest. Sorry to be such a pathetic cliche. Not all of us have the imagination to dream up unique, never-before-seen personalities, like, say, "Angry Internet Chat Room Nerd."
mjp
Founding member
Apology accepted.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
You have little to no idea about what you are talking about. It is too easy, but I'll get to three small points where you are painfully ignorant:
1) The book is not in the public domain. I know that hollywood folk think that everything is theirs, but it is not in public domain and is very much owned by the Estate of Bukowski. Don't believe me? Then make the movie without rights (it is in public domain like Shakespeare, so you don't need rights, right?) and you'll be visited by the lawyers of Bukowski. They'll clue you in as they take everything that you own.
2) "if there was a lawsuit to be brought, it would be against Bukowski... ...and would have been done already." a) Bukowski is dead. He has no money. Any case brought against a dead author doe a book written 40 years ago would be laughed out of court. Change the medium and open up a whole new world off lawsuits against all involved. b) Someone injured would sue EVERYONE involved ESPECIALLY those with the deepest pockets. There is more money to get from MiraMax than the Bukowski estate and c) People sue more now than they did in the freewheeling 70s, or do you not read the papers? and d) Do you know anyone written about in Women? Many of us here know a bunch of women written about in that book and know what you only assume, baby. They were very young and disenfranchised then. They would not know where to find a lawyer. Now they are women of the world with resources that they did not have.
3) If you think that changing the name barely and putting a disclaimer on that will shield you, then you are on a course to ruin and bankruptcy, baby. If you don't believe me, write a screenplay about a famous actor named Robert Gore who is married to an actress/model named Candy Crawdodge and make your screenplay about how Candy likes putting hamsters in Robert's ass. Then tell the judge as he awards them your house, about how you HAD a disclaimer and you changed the names and all...
So maybe your parents and friends think that you know EVERYTHING, but I have just shown you how you are SO wrong in so many ways, in what you purport to be your professions, in such a short paragraph.
Or just start working on the next lame hollywood treatment of a James Ellroy novel and go bother his psychotic followers.
Thanks, baby.
Bill
My parents and friends think I know everything? Where are these personal attacks coming from? How have I managed to so easily rile up this angry mob?
Okay, Bill. Maybe you're right. Maybe there's no possible way to adapt this novel without incurring the wrath of your good friends, the women written about in the book, and their avalanche of slam-dunk lawsuits. I sincerely doubt it, but maybe you're right.
We'll see, I guess. My sincere apologies for trespassing upon your sacred fan site.
Okay, Bill. Maybe you're right. Maybe there's no possible way to adapt this novel without incurring the wrath of your good friends, the women written about in the book, and their avalanche of slam-dunk lawsuits. I sincerely doubt it, but maybe you're right.
We'll see, I guess. My sincere apologies for trespassing upon your sacred fan site.
chronic
old and in the way
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Ellroy's sacred fans are nicer. I would direct you to the site if he had one...
Aw, that one off-handed, tongue-in-cheek line got everyone so upset? My, what a sensitive bunch. I did say "no offense."
Not a big Ellroy guy, but appreciate the sentiment.
Not a big Ellroy guy, but appreciate the sentiment.
mjp
Founding member
It's okay to tell someone they're full of shit, just not on your first day.
You also did something that rubs just about everyone here the wrong way, and that is posing a question when you have an ulterior motive. We get a lot of that, so it's easy to see through, and it's tiresome and a little insulting.
Had you come in and said, "I'm thinking of writing a screenplay for Women," you may have received a different jump-in.
Anyway, you roll with the punches, so you have that going for you.
You also did something that rubs just about everyone here the wrong way, and that is posing a question when you have an ulterior motive. We get a lot of that, so it's easy to see through, and it's tiresome and a little insulting.
Had you come in and said, "I'm thinking of writing a screenplay for Women," you may have received a different jump-in.
Anyway, you roll with the punches, so you have that going for you.
I wouldn't say I had an ulterior motive. I was legitimately interested in people's thoughts on the questions I posed. Had I come in and said, "I'm thinking of writing a screenplay for Women," I may have received an entirely different barrage of accusations of being a dipshit screenwriter who should never go near a work of Bukowski's. So, you know, hindsight's 20/20.
But I apologize. Admittedly, I wasn't familiar with the etiquette.
But I apologize. Admittedly, I wasn't familiar with the etiquette.
mjp
Founding member
Yes, yes, and at the end it pauses, allowing you to pose in front of a racetrack backdrop where you are provided with a rubber cigar - the light flashes, camera goes off and you have a lifetime memory (for an additional $19.95).
Exactly, yes. So you do understand.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
As long as the theme park is in Brooklyn, NY I'm cool. I plan a visit there soon.
Anytime there is something created by others, there is always someone looking to exploit it for their own proifit.
Anytime there is something created by others, there is always someone looking to exploit it for their own proifit.
Hey, maybe it is a cigar, a hat? You pumping iron - how much do you bench-press?
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
I'm living proof of that. But I've sworn off trying to make money from writing.