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Holy Shit. Jim Tully's copy of ASK. Very cool...
Bill
Bill
Cheap copy of At Terror Street...
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Gary Eisenberg
RIP
Bill, the interesting thing is I knew nothing at all about Jim Tully when I came across this first of Ask the Dust (circa 1976-76). It was several years later that I happened upon Beggars of Life, and I recalled the inscription to Fante. First the title caught my attention, and then I remembered the inscription to Tully. Back in those days, there was virtually no interest in either author, thus finding a copy for $10 was no big deal at all. While I don't consider Tully's work to be at the same level as Fante's it is still damned good and certainly did not deserve to languish in obscurity. Thinking about John Martin at the moment...realizing that he really did have the vision - and cojones - embark upon his publishing journey when he did. Were it not for John Martin, we may well have never been able to access Buk's work the way we have been able to do.
mjp
Founding member
Were it not for John Martin indeed.
i hope you meant that in more ways than one...
you could also say if it weren't for john martin, bukowski's work would be accessible as the writer intended.
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
OK, I’ve been thinking about this all day and could go into a 20-page rant, but I’ll try to keep it short.
In my experience, the most compelling thing Michael writes is the following:
“But as I would read each of the posthumous books I couldn’t help feeling that they were a little off. Reading them could give you the distinct and uneasy feeling that maybe Bukowski had lost it when he had written this stuff. That the quality of his work began to slip at some point...”
I will admit that I gave up on Bukowski’s work after he died. I looked forward to each new book and hoped it would go on forever. But as I read them, I got bored very quickly. I assumed that he had went the way of Hunter S. Thompson – or in Bukowski’s case, Hemingway, who clearly let Buk down near the end.
Maybe it was switching from a typewriter to his Apple computer (Shadow of the Rose seems like evidence). Maybe it was moving into that beautiful home and living the life that he’d finally earned with Linda. Maybe he just got melancholy as his last years went by.
But if he was actually castrated like we’ve seen in a few poems, it really is a case of identity theft. This guy was my hero and I couldn’t imagine the fire going out until his body went cold. I excused it, of course, when I read those books, because he had already given me so much – who the fuck was I to complain?
But now I feel guilty that I may have given up on the man -- the way he did with Hemingway. But without just cause…
There’s a post that goes back a while where Roni asks for proof. It seems like we’re seeing some of that proof now, but I’d like to see even more so we all know the truth. Otherwise, we can keep on speculating until we give up and give in…
In my experience, the most compelling thing Michael writes is the following:
“But as I would read each of the posthumous books I couldn’t help feeling that they were a little off. Reading them could give you the distinct and uneasy feeling that maybe Bukowski had lost it when he had written this stuff. That the quality of his work began to slip at some point...”
I will admit that I gave up on Bukowski’s work after he died. I looked forward to each new book and hoped it would go on forever. But as I read them, I got bored very quickly. I assumed that he had went the way of Hunter S. Thompson – or in Bukowski’s case, Hemingway, who clearly let Buk down near the end.
Maybe it was switching from a typewriter to his Apple computer (Shadow of the Rose seems like evidence). Maybe it was moving into that beautiful home and living the life that he’d finally earned with Linda. Maybe he just got melancholy as his last years went by.
But if he was actually castrated like we’ve seen in a few poems, it really is a case of identity theft. This guy was my hero and I couldn’t imagine the fire going out until his body went cold. I excused it, of course, when I read those books, because he had already given me so much – who the fuck was I to complain?
But now I feel guilty that I may have given up on the man -- the way he did with Hemingway. But without just cause…
There’s a post that goes back a while where Roni asks for proof. It seems like we’re seeing some of that proof now, but I’d like to see even more so we all know the truth. Otherwise, we can keep on speculating until we give up and give in…
mjp
Founding member
That's a good thread.
You could very easily find a lot more similar changes in the posthumous Black Sparrow books. The reason there are only a couple dozen on the comparisons page is because I can't do any more. It makes me too sad and angry. Like watching the President piss on your mother's leg. You can't do anything to stop him, and most people witnessing it say, "Shut up, it's the president, he's a great man."
I find the desire for concrete proof to be funny. The proof is on the fucking pages. If someone can't see it, they should just run along and forget about this whole thing. It doesn't concern them.
Gary Eisenberg
RIP
MJP, I read your blog, and I have to admit - this is unfortunate, to put it MILDLY. To put it honestly, it SUCKS. I don't own that many of the posthumously published books, thank goodness. Editing of content is fine with some things - but NEVER with poetry. Never. Period. There is simply no justification, no excuse. Still, I do remain grateful to John Martin for his dedication to Bukowksi and his willingness to lay down the hard cash during the risky years. But that gratefulness is certainly tempered by the posthumous editing. And I AM grateful to you, MJP, for doing your homework and laying it down as it is. As a writer myself, I have had to deal with intrusive editors. But with my genre of writing (primarily booze reviews, believe it or not), it is reasonable for a magazine editor to make certain editorial changes. Although I have to admit, I was really pissed off that some of my best work wound up on the cutting room floor. I can only imagine how a poet or novelist would feel. As I see it, it is indeed criminal for an editor to change ANY content when it comes to poetry; and it is dangerously close to criminal (if not downright criminal) for an editor to do this with creative prose. I have done my own share of editing, and I am proud to say that I do my best not to "fuck with copy." The highest compliment I ever received on my editorial skills came from German author Gundolf Freyermuth. (I edited his book, "That's It," which was a memoir of his experience visiting Bukowski in his final days, along with his friend Michael Montfort.) Here's what Gundolf had to say about my approach to editing:
Would like Roni's thoughts on this. The original and the English versions. Maybe a scan of the piece as well if possible.
me too.
My trust was all used up on Lance Armstr:wb: ong
no, I'm sure she's just curious, since I'm a German and would know.
I do have the German edition 'Das War's' and like it. Of course the quotes were translated from the English original, while, Gundolf's own German text was written by him in his native languge. He's not only a nice guy, but also a trustworthy (accurate) journalist.
Haven't read the English version, but sure Hank's quotes weren't re-translated from the (earlier) German book, but taken from the original interview.
Alas, the English version doesn't have the photographs by MM.
One funny episode is a party at 'Spago's in 1985, where Gundolf first met Hank and whitnessed Hank insulting Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The main part of the book is about his meeting with him just half a year before he died. Long interview and going to his birthday-party in the bookshop of Mrs. Kowalsi (sp?).
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
Ok, back to the original thread. The book went for $122.00 or something. Taking the sticker off was a dumb idea of mine, but it's fun that I wasn't the only one who thought it might be fun. May the winning bidder feel happy about the purchase....
$115.25. Thanks.
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
Not such a cheap copy, but enjoy anyhow... A damn good book....
I maybe overpaid 20 or 30 bucks, but very happy to get it. One I've always wanted and condition isn't my primary motivation.
Not as nice as the last PBA copy but nice enough for me.
Not as nice as the last PBA copy but nice enough for me.
Gary Eisenberg
RIP
Allow me to properly clarify: Gundolf wrote his English version, but realized that his style of writing in English was rather stiff. So what he wanted me to do was to modify the STYLE without changing the CONTENT. Specifically, he wanted the style to read less "formal." I never saw the German language version of Gundolf mss. While I can speak basic German (VERY basic - enough to serve as a Trauzeuge at a friend's wedding in Hamburg), I lack the fluency to read text in that language. What Gundolf appreciated was the care that I took in rendering his narrative into a less formal "voice" - without in any way changing the meaning/emotion/content itself. I did that editing job long ago, but remember quite vividly how challenging it was.
Going off of my personal scale of what things are worth in the cosmos, $115 for that seems like a keeper and then some. Nice score Adam!
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
That's a lot of money for a trashed library copy, but what the hell. It's still a very cool book.
About Martin's publishing Bukowski: there was never much risk in doing that, financially. Bukowski ALWAYS sold well, from the get go. Any editor could publish Bukowski and sell out immediately. The work was that good. It did not take balls to be his champion. It was just smart business.
About Martin's publishing Bukowski: there was never much risk in doing that, financially. Bukowski ALWAYS sold well, from the get go. Any editor could publish Bukowski and sell out immediately. The work was that good. It did not take balls to be his champion. It was just smart business.
mjp
Founding member
I don't know. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that starting a poetry publishing house is "smart business." From a purely business standpoint, only an idiot would start a publishing house with a roster of nothing but poets. You'd have to really like what you're doing, because the idea of becoming wealthy through it is laughable. No one gives a shit about poetry.
Selling "well" is subjective. Let's not forget that he never sold in large numbers in America. Black Sparrow's first printings were small, even for his novels after Bukowski became "famous" (Ham on Rye, for example; 9000 copies), and there were brand new unsold copies of Crucifix in book stores as late as the 80s.
Over a decade the most popular Bukowski title might sell 50,000 copies in the U.S. That's a lot of copies, but the latest New York Times bestseller probably sells 50,000 copies every month. Or every week for a big brand name author.
All of that might sound like a case for Martin as a passionate champion of the arts. It's not something I happen to believe, but I can see how it might look that way.
Selling "well" is subjective. Let's not forget that he never sold in large numbers in America. Black Sparrow's first printings were small, even for his novels after Bukowski became "famous" (Ham on Rye, for example; 9000 copies), and there were brand new unsold copies of Crucifix in book stores as late as the 80s.
Over a decade the most popular Bukowski title might sell 50,000 copies in the U.S. That's a lot of copies, but the latest New York Times bestseller probably sells 50,000 copies every month. Or every week for a big brand name author.
All of that might sound like a case for Martin as a passionate champion of the arts. It's not something I happen to believe, but I can see how it might look that way.
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
Somewhere (online interview?) I remember John Martin saying he wanted Black Sparrow to be like New Directions. That's a pretty high bar. The 1960s and 1970s seemed more open to poetry publishing than, say, today's market is. Buncha hippie draft dodgers in university, and all of them "poets", back then.
(Can't seem to upload a 1972 NOLA ad from Black Sparrow. Lots of titles. I just get a red error message. Been the same for a few days.)
(Can't seem to upload a 1972 NOLA ad from Black Sparrow. Lots of titles. I just get a red error message. Been the same for a few days.)
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
Okay that works. I've probably already uploaded this. But here it is again. 1972 ad for Black Sparrow.
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
mjp, you're right. It would have been more accurate if I'd have said Bukowski sold very well, for poetry. I think the situation with unsold new copies of Crucifix in bookshops in the 70s/early 80s, is that the book was considered expensive at the time, and most of the readers of poetry were penniless hippies and students for whom $2 for a chapbook was a major purchase. I remember wanting but not buying some of Bukowski's chapbooks and little magazine appearances because I didn't have the $1 or $2 cover price. My rent, 2 blocks from the beach in Long Beach, was $60 a month in 1968, just for comparison. I was making $1.00 an hour at my part time library job.
Gary Eisenberg
RIP
While I'm not sure that John Martin's motivations were entirely altruistic, I hardly think he was making a "sure bet" when he promised Buk $100/week.
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
I'm not saying Martin thought he would get rich publishing Bukowski, just that if you were going to publish poetry in the 60s, Bukowski was a very good choice because the work was excellent, readers were interested, and the books would sell. It was smart of him to take on Bukowski. He deserves credit for promoting Bukowksi early on, for seeing the quality and potential there. He was more savy than the average small press editor. The promise of $100 etc. was risky, I doubt many editors would have done that, even for Bukowski. Martin believed in Bukowski, as an artist, and as a writer who could sell books. He may have seen the potential for Bukowski to go big time and be a commercial success. The sloppy, low grade, cavalier editing makes me think selling the books was more important to Martin than what was in them, even though he thought Bukowski had a good line and could tell a story.
mjp
Founding member
Maybe. But he placed bets on a lot of writers, as you can see from the BSP bibliographies and the checklist of the first 100 publications. The "Martin started Black Sparrow to publish Bukowski" myth is pretty well busted when you look at those.
And hopefully we've put to rest the idea that $100 a month in 1970 "allowed" Bukowski to quit his job. It wasn't anywhere near enough to do that. It was a gesture, and yes, it was a risk on Martin's part. But it did what it was intended to do, which is help light the fire under Bukowski's ass. Leaving the job probably would have done that without the money from Martin, but Martin made the offer when he did, so the two things are forever intertwined.
Received Terror and it's a little better than as described. The interior is very clean and the embossed letter and drawings are
pretty neat. The words of course, are magic.
pretty neat. The words of course, are magic.
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
Ok, I feel much better about this purchase than the Crusifix that went tonight for about the same money without the signature...