politics.. delegates.

[place holder]

so, this is my first time voting,
i have no clue on politics really,
been getting into it more.. supportive of obama.

well, i voted in the caucus awhile back,
and now i'm listed as a final delegate,
so i have to do some voting again this saturday.

i read a little on what a delegate is,
but can anyone give me a more simple break down
of when a delegate is and does?

i'm trying to get more informed online also before saturday.

thanks.

 

[ROC]

so, this is my first time voting,
i have no clue on politics really,
been getting into it more.. supportive of obama.

Anyone that really wants to be president should not be allowed in the race.

Good luck sorting the stink from the poo.

 

[Black Swan]

so, this is my first time voting,
i have no clue on politics really,
been getting into it more.. supportive of obama.

Here is my advice,
read and listen all you can,
find the BEST guy or gal,
vote,
and get ready to lose. . .

 

[jmoshea]

vote Nader:

http://www.votenader.org/

 

[place holder]

i'm sorry, no, i like nader a lot,
but the whole world is watching us,
honestly he wont be our next president anytime soon.

a vote for nader in my book,
more of an egotistical move.

i'd rather choose obama,
i even think ron paul had some cool shit to say.

i'd really like to avoid another clinton in this white house,
and mccain just scares me with the majority of his ideals.

nadar shouldn't even be putting his hat in this late,
but go ahead, vote nader, i'll vote my way,
i just thinking voting for him just makes people feel more self-righteous.

nader is a great guy, an ideal president,
but at this time/election, he can only hurt the outcome.

also, didn't he owe mccain a favor?

 

[jmoshea]

I think I would rather vote for someone who stands for the things I believe in than another corporate-hack, warmonger who will do little to nothing different despite his nauseating slogan of "Change."

 

[place holder]

i wont debate you (i'm sure it's not a forum favorite, like religious debates.)
we can agree to disagree.

we'll leave it at that.

 

[chronic]

The bottom line is that a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain.

The definition of madness is to do the same thing again and again and expect a different outcome.

 

[LickTheStar]

I've always disagreed that a vote for a third party is a vote for *insert politician's name here* just because... I feel its more important to vote for who you believe in, instead of "the lesser of two evils."

Honestly... Either party can equally fuck up the next four years. And probably will!

 

[ROC]

we can agree to disagree.

I can't agree with that :D

 

[jmoshea]

The definition of madness is to do the same thing again and again and expect a different outcome.

my sentiments exactly!

 

[chronic]

I've always disagreed that a vote for a third party is a vote for *insert politician's name here* just because... I feel its more important to vote for who you believe in, instead of "the lesser of two evils."

In a perfect world I would agree with you on that point, but the way things are now any vote for Nader will be a vote taken away from one of the lesser of two evils... possibly allowing the greater of two evils to win (see the year 2000 for details). May as well vote for Mickey Mouse. At least that way you'll get a bi-partisan draw.

Honestly... Either party can equally fuck up the next four years. And probably will!

Agreed, but McCain has already promised to fuck up for the next four years. At least Billary and Obama have indicated an interest in a different path.

 

[number6horse]

I personally can't rationalize my vote on a "lesser/greater of two evils" basis. (Though I admit I used to look at it that way.) But no longer. The way I see it is you have to vote according to your principles, regardless. And if the choices are really that disagreeable (to me), then I will abstain - fuck it. I'm not lowering my standards. For me this year, it's Obama or nobody. I am also very close to quitting the Democratic Party and registering as either an Independent or Greenie.

(slightly off-topic) Does anyone else sense a 1968-style Summer coming on ? Protests in and around the Olympics....a volatile Democratic Convention...an unpopular war that shows no signs of turning a corner in ANYONE'S favor.... Not trying to hi-jack the thread here and if the Mods want to spin this off seperately THEN I'M GOING TO THROW A MOLITOV COCKTAIL !!! :)

 

[chronic]

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

UP AGAINST THE WALL MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
that felt good

Does anyone else sense a 1968-style Summer coming on ? Protests in and around the Olympics....a volatile Democratic Convention...an unpopular war that shows no signs of turning a corner in ANYONE'S favor.... Not trying to hi-jack the thread here and if the Mods want to spin this off seperately THEN I'M GOING TO THROW A MOLITOV COCKTAIL !!! :)

As soon as I finish my double choco latte with a shot, I'll join you.

 

[ROC]

The way I see it is you have to vote according to your principles, regardless. And if the choices are really that disagreeable (to me), then I will abstain - fuck it. I'm not lowering my standards.

At least you have a choice.
Voting is compulsory here.
The last time I abstained in protest, I received a fine in the mail - just over a hundred dollars - threatening legal action if I didn't pay.

 

[Short Bus]

Or Americans can just ght used to the idea that they are going to need to elect McCain and those even more right wing to countbalance the Imperialist Chinese aggression-somebody has to and quick and well John Wayne is dead.
Countries like us "Canada" are destined to be whores to one of them so better the pimp you know-you know.
Don't save the world for us-just rule it-that way we still get Levis at Walmart prices-who cares who makes them.... a jobs a job... right.
You Americans-don't fall for any of that Sinopsyhcoguilt

 

[number6horse]

Actually, in many ways, I think that Chinese aggression is for real. They will neutralize us without firing a single shot. They are already in the process of buying us out. Most of our Treasury Notes (which finance government spending) are bought by the Chinese. They are our creditors. Once they get deep enough in our pockets, there may come a point where they have enough leverage to silence all U.S. protest or threats of economic/military action against them or their interests. Then they can move against Taiwan, Tibet at will. If we try to respond, we face economic collapse.

It's almost a paranoid scenario, I know - but when you really look at the numbers involved and examine the history of the Chinese government....F-U-U-U-C-K !!!! :eek:

 

[number6horse]

At least you have a choice.
Voting is compulsory here.
The last time I abstained in protest, I received a fine in the mail - just over a hundred dollars - threatening legal action if I didn't pay.

That's fucked up - I had no idea Australia did that to its people.

 

[Buzzcat]

Couldn't tell ya shit about being a delegate. I do know that I'm all in with Obama though. He's the only one left that actually can put numerous coherent sentences together and not have them chock full of bullshit. The other two are completely full of shit. I don't trust hillary as far as I can shotput an elephant. McCain is either nearly senile or bush II. No thanks. The current occupant and cronies have aleady tanked the economy bad enough. I can't cut anything else out of my budget. I'm at the bare necessities here. And it blows. And sucks too.

 

[ROC]

Actually, in many ways, I think that Chinese aggression is for real. They will neutralize us without firing a single shot. They are already in the process of buying us out. Most of our Treasury Notes (which finance government spending) are bought by the Chinese. They are our creditors. Once they get deep enough in our pockets, there may come a point where they have enough leverage to silence all U.S. protest or threats of economic/military action against them or their interests. Then they can move against Taiwan, Tibet at will. If we try to respond, we face economic collapse.

It's almost a paranoid scenario, I know - but when you really look at the numbers involved and examine the history of the Chinese government....F-U-U-U-C-K !!!! :eek:

I don't know if I'd call it Chinese aggression or just beating you at your own game. It's a 'free market economy' and that means the bigger and nastier you are the more pie you get.
I always laugh when I read about governments bailing out companies with huge $$$ handouts or trade barriers erected to protect local argriculture/industry.
The big boys don't want to admit that capitalism shafts almost everyone in the end (double entendre intended).
China is a horrible place in some ways but, when I travelled the world a few years ago the feeling I got in China was most closely matched in the USA.
Go figure.

The Chinese are thinking long term - big picture. One can't say the same of the current US admin or any in recent history.

When asked what the effects of the French Revolution were, a Chinese diplomat answered "It's too early to tell".

 

[ROC]

Oh and by the way...

http://collectingbukowski.com/broadsides/democracy.html

 

[bospress.net]

Thanks ROC for bringing it back on-topic!

It would be nice to see Obama in there. Surely after a President that is considered (even by his supporters) to not be good with the English language; it would be nice to see someone that can really speak. I'm not sure if he'll make any difference. Something tells me that he will, but that is a gut feeling. The way that things are going here now, we really need to do a 180. There is not much that is going well right now. And thi s is coming from someone who is in the new home construction business and is worried. I'm not blaming EVERYTHING on Bush, but it seems that in most cases, the reaction to any crisis has been whatever actually makes it worse. Crippling debt and defecits, give people $1200 checks. No worry, we'll just borrow more money to pay for that. This plan will spur the economy for about 2 weeks.

And then there is the mortgage crisis. The Congress (Republicans with enough big-business Democrats) removed the part of the plan to help homeOWNERS that are in danger of losing their homes, instead opting to help bail out large homeBUILDERS.

See. I did not want to comment on Politics, but it has drawn me in. Apologies to all, but it is late here.

Bill

p.s. The GREAT news is that if I get laid off, I'll have to sell my Bukowski collection, so there is that bright side. The last time I did this was in December 2001, after getting laid off with no Unemployment insurance (Long Story). I sold a lot of my stuff to Nick (Who you all know) for about $5,000. It was probably about $10,000 worth of stuff, inlcuding some Bukowski manuscripts and a letter from Buk to the Webbs circa 1965. I needed the money and was able to replace almost everything (except the manuscripts and letter, of course). Times were tough, but looking back, those were the good old days....

 

[ROC]

Times were tough, but looking back, those were the good old days....

Brother... I hear that.

 

[chronic]

It would be nice to see Obama in there ... I'm not sure if he'll make any difference. Something tells me that he will, but that is a gut feeling. The way that things are going here now, we really need to do a 180. There is not much that is going well right now.

You know, I have the same feeling about Obama, much more so than a few months ago. Unfortunately he hasn't yet amassed enough of a voting record to be certain of where he will stand on some issues, but he does have enough of a record to see that he is usually on the correct side of an issue (from my slimy liberal point-of-view). On the other hand, Hillary has supported enough of Bush's infringements on the Constitution to keep me from ever voting for her willingly (though, if she somehow ends up the nominee I will vote for her, and then I will probably come home and vomit).

I also agree that the country needs to make an abrupt about-face. Anything less is likely to be disastrous for the future of the US. I know that some conservatives feel the same way and believe that the neo-cons have hijacked their party. Many republicans have come to the realization that Bushco does not share their ideology and that the neo-cons are actually radical rather than conservative in their views.

... in most cases, the reaction to any crisis has been whatever actually makes it worse. Crippling debt and defecits, give people $1200 checks. No worry, we'll just borrow more money to pay for that. This plan will spur the economy for about 2 weeks.

Give us hot chocolate and hum a little tune until we settle down and go to sleep. The usual. The whole point of the rest of his time in office seems to now be to keep all of the bad shit in stasis until he's out of office. That way the neo-cons can point at the next (probably democratic) president and blame him or her for the fallout. That is, if Bush doesn't declare a state of emergency and refuse to leave office.

And then there is the mortgage crisis. The Congress (Republicans with enough big-business Democrats) removed the part of the plan to help homeOWNERS that are in danger of losing their homes, instead opting to help bail out large homeBUILDERS.

...and don't forget the bankers who created this problem in the first place.

See. I did not want to comment on Politics, but it has drawn me in.

Hard to avoid being drawn into political conversations in this day and age. It's hard to smell the flowers when you're rolling around neck-deep in shit.

... I sold a lot of my stuff to Nick (Who you all know) for about $5,000. It was probably about $10,000 worth of stuff ...

I thought Nick would pay $15,000 for $10,000 worth of stuff. Don't think that I ever saw him buy anything for below market value.

 

[bospress.net]

I thought Nick would pay $15,000 for $10,000 worth of stuff. Don't think that I ever saw him buy anything for below market value.

On ebay, yes, but contacting him directly was quite the opposite. I recently ran across the excel file of what I sold him and for what prices he paid. I did not have the heart to open the file and I will probably delete it without reading it. I do not want to see what I parted with in times of need...

Bill

 

[number6horse]

The Chinese are thinking long term - big picture. One can't say the same of the current US admin or any in recent history...

When asked what the effects of the French Revolution were, a Chinese diplomat answered "It's too early to tell".

I agree 100%. Every move they make takes the long-term ramifications into account. They have made the correct calculation that in order to ensure victory in a two-man race, they first have to cripple the other guy. It's like buying insurance against unforseen/unfair factors. It's fixing the game to begin with. (Yes - it may be the very essence of capitalism itself.)

That quote about the French Revolution says it all. Beautiful.

I make these comments as someone with liberal/libertarian leanings and I am not a paranoid doom-sayer. I just see some awful dark clouds on the horizon. I don't have any quick answers either, and there probably are none.

 

[Father Luke]

i have no clue on politics really,

and now i'm listed as a final delegate

This is a clear, and vivid example of
the American Political System.

 

[mjp]

...if I get laid off, I'll have to sell my Bukowski collection, so there is that bright side. The last time I did this was in December 2001, after getting laid off with no Unemployment insurance (Long Story).

Funny (or not), but that's the same time period I sold off a lot of stuff I owned due to a lengthy unemployment.

So keep your job. We seem to be following the same path, and I can't afford unemployment right now.

 

[LickTheStar]

Agreed, but McCain has already promised to fuck up for the next four years. At least Billary and Obama have indicated an interest in a different path.

I have my doubts on Clinton. If only because she always seems to be claiming experience she ain't got. Neither of them seems particularly experienced, but I'd (agreeably) rather have one of them over McCain, considering his stance on a lot of things in the 2000 election versus now.

And don't count out Mickey, he may yet get my write in vote this year if the Dems keep fuckin' shit up.

 

[harrystuped]

if voting changed anything they made it illegal.

that is all I got to say

:)