The campaign to save Bukowski's De Longpre bungalow
- Thread starter esotouric
- Start date
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
Not hard to find on the web:
http://www.hollywoodinvestigator.com/2003/bukowski1.htm
http://www.hollywoodinvestigator.com/2003/bukowski1.htm
Not that much of a stretch to find folks of that generation that weren't too upset over the Nazi program. All lot of those left alive would never admit it nowadays though. When we were kids I had a friend who was Italian, and lived in one of those tenement houses.
His grandfather and mother lived downstairs and the old man hung out in the cellar, making wine and taking radios apart. In one corner he had a picture of Mussolini on the wall, and refused to take it down despite the protestations of his daughters and sons. He'd curse 'em in Italian. We'd go down there and smoke dope and laugh at Il Duce every chance we got.
His grandfather and mother lived downstairs and the old man hung out in the cellar, making wine and taking radios apart. In one corner he had a picture of Mussolini on the wall, and refused to take it down despite the protestations of his daughters and sons. He'd curse 'em in Italian. We'd go down there and smoke dope and laugh at Il Duce every chance we got.
The lawyer for the owners is grasping at straws, and has decided to appeal that the owners (who are Jewish) can not possibly allow the home of a nazi sympathizer to be honored. Sigh.
However, The Department of Historic Preservation wants to landmark the property regardless, and sees this for what it is, which is essentially playing the "race card". They have told us to be prepared for that arguement though, which may sway the Commission, as their recommendations ultimately must come before City Council. Blah blah blah, anyway, I just wanted to be prepared for anything they might have up their sleeve.
That Hollywood Insider (or whatever it's called) article seems pretty poorly researched and sensationalized to me, so I'm not too concerned about that.
Thank you Hank Solo!
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Some famous americans that maybe should not have their historic homes preserved:
Prominent "Owners" of other human beings:
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Prominent Nazi Supporters
Henry Ford
Charles Lindburgh
These two above, especially Lindburgh were hard core. Lucky Lindy even had the German Cross pinned on his by none other than Goering.
I think that if we can preserve historc places of people that although considered heroes today, were really fucked up by today's morals (not that morality changes, just what is considered moral & immoral) then I think that Bukowski should not be condemned for what was possibly a strange stance to make when he was a teenager. His life and writing do not support that he was a Nazi Supporter or a follower of any political party or movement...
Bill
p.s. I talked with a British accent when I was a teenager. Why American boys do that, I don't know. By today's standards, I am a world-class douche. Hell, I was a douche back then too...
Prominent "Owners" of other human beings:
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Prominent Nazi Supporters
Henry Ford
Charles Lindburgh
These two above, especially Lindburgh were hard core. Lucky Lindy even had the German Cross pinned on his by none other than Goering.
I think that if we can preserve historc places of people that although considered heroes today, were really fucked up by today's morals (not that morality changes, just what is considered moral & immoral) then I think that Bukowski should not be condemned for what was possibly a strange stance to make when he was a teenager. His life and writing do not support that he was a Nazi Supporter or a follower of any political party or movement...
Bill
p.s. I talked with a British accent when I was a teenager. Why American boys do that, I don't know. By today's standards, I am a world-class douche. Hell, I was a douche back then too...
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Jordan is looking to piss off somebody! Ha!
Bloody Hell!
Bill
Bloody Hell!
Bill
justine
stop the penistry
australians sound more like new zealanders.
and i'm sure you know that new zealanders don't sound british.
justine
stop the penistry
some goddamn yanks... they think everyone else has an 'accent' and they're the only ones who speak normally.
I'm not at home now, so can't look up the chapter in HAM ON RYE, where he goes about the Nazu-story (like in 'Politics', which hanksolo quoted). Can anyone look up the # of that chapter and post here for Hindinwood to find the reference?
It's these two sources that say it all.
On the Pleasants-claims:
When Linda King was in Germany she was asked about those accusations. (she knew Hank and Pleasants at the times before they split up.) She clearly stated: "I would not believe anything, that either of them says about the other."
One of his best friends, Neeli Cherkovski, was a Jew. (and also a homosexual.) - this doesn't sound very Nazi-like to me.
At the time when Buk was acting nazi at college, he just wanted to show opposition.
Had he lived in Germany at the same time he would've played the comunist.
He was simply demonstrating what he always did: the way of the individual - against authorities, against the masses.
in short: Bukowski had Nazis for breakfast if he wanted.
It's these two sources that say it all.
On the Pleasants-claims:
When Linda King was in Germany she was asked about those accusations. (she knew Hank and Pleasants at the times before they split up.) She clearly stated: "I would not believe anything, that either of them says about the other."
One of his best friends, Neeli Cherkovski, was a Jew. (and also a homosexual.) - this doesn't sound very Nazi-like to me.
At the time when Buk was acting nazi at college, he just wanted to show opposition.
Had he lived in Germany at the same time he would've played the comunist.
He was simply demonstrating what he always did: the way of the individual - against authorities, against the masses.
in short: Bukowski had Nazis for breakfast if he wanted.
Ham On Rye Chapter 52
"It was intellectually popular and proper to be for going to war with Germany, to stop the spread of fascism. As for me, I had no desire to go to war to protect the life I had or what future I might have. I had no Freedom. I had nothing. With Hitler around, maybe I'd even get a piece of ass now and then and more than a dollar a week allowance. As far as I could rationalize, I had nothing to protect. Also, having been born in Germany, there was a natural loyalty and I didn't like to see the whole German nation, the people, depicted everywhere as monsters and idiots."
"Thus, I wasn't a Nazi by temperament or choice; the teachers more or less forced it on me by being so much alike and thinking so much alike and with their anti-German prejudice."
Anyway, that's the chapter you're looking for.
"It was intellectually popular and proper to be for going to war with Germany, to stop the spread of fascism. As for me, I had no desire to go to war to protect the life I had or what future I might have. I had no Freedom. I had nothing. With Hitler around, maybe I'd even get a piece of ass now and then and more than a dollar a week allowance. As far as I could rationalize, I had nothing to protect. Also, having been born in Germany, there was a natural loyalty and I didn't like to see the whole German nation, the people, depicted everywhere as monsters and idiots."
"Thus, I wasn't a Nazi by temperament or choice; the teachers more or less forced it on me by being so much alike and thinking so much alike and with their anti-German prejudice."
Anyway, that's the chapter you're looking for.
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No. Although he drunkenly praises Hitler and Amin in the Bukowski Tapes.
P
postino
After reading that chapter in Ham on Rye, and examining references to Jews in Bukowski's notes, it is my belief that he was a bundist. He never joined the nazi party, but he took pride in being born in Germany, and I believe he was conflicted about it. The world owes him a debt for his honesty about what he saw in relation to the nazis, ie, the part in ham on rye where he talks about the ridiculous nazi party meeting that he walked out on.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
It looks like Bukowski was just trying to stir things up in school, just for sport. I guess we all try to stir it up every once in a while, just for sport.
P
postino
Bukowski clearly stated that he was upset about the way Germans were being portrayed in the media and he had to try to defend his image. Isn't that how all polocks feel. IE Bukowski was a polock.
M
MULLINAX
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And what a meeting it was! " I'm a man, I'm a man!"
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The Bukowskis were assimilated Slavs, originally from the eastern parts of Germany. The Drang Nach Osten and Kulturkampf predated the Lebensraum movement. See Skorzeny and Waldetsky (Waldheim).
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Bukowski was not polish, he was German, but probably had Polish ancestors.
Also, Polack (spelled Polack) is an ethnic slur with very negative connotations for Polish people in the US. I'm not sure that the Polish members of this forum are going to be happy with your last post, uness I'm wrong and the term is only used in the US and England.
Bill
MULLINAX said:
Thanks for the info. It makes sense. Man-Made political borders are arbitrary in regards to ethnicity and language.
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I don't think so....
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I though that it was a joke, but as mentioned in another thread, I don't get jokes very well and take hints even worse...
Bill
Bill