Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
I find it interesting that most musicians, painters and writers turn to jazz, abstract art and simpler words as time goes.
The David Bowie Thread
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mjp
Founding member
What?
my inner cynic would say he makes that type of music now cause he can't write any good pop/rock tunes anymore.
why wouldn't he if he could?
sorry to be negative ned, but i find it interesting that virtually all pop/rock - i.e. catchy melody - writers lose that ability at some point in their life, usually around middle age.
why wouldn't he if he could?
sorry to be negative ned, but i find it interesting that virtually all pop/rock - i.e. catchy melody - writers lose that ability at some point in their life, usually around middle age.
mjp
Founding member
Popular music is a young person's game, yes, but I'm not sure aging pop performers lose their ability as much as they lose their taste for the game. If you add fame to the mix, then you've got ego involved, and on top of that the desire to say something profound that can overcome the unsuspecting as they age.
But really, the history of popular music (and art and writing to a lesser extent) overwhelmingly suggests that creativity in general is short-lived. Very very few performers or bands are vital and interesting for more than two or three records. The proof of that is everywhere, in every genre and every era.
There are some stunning exceptions of course, and part of what makes them stunning is the fact that they are exceptions. Just changing your style every few years though does not a stunning exception make.
In an effort to stay on topic I just listened to the Bowie track and it's okay until the singer comes in. Which probably isn't a good sign when the singer has his name on the tune. But then Bowie's interest inirritating, atonal bullshit non-traditional pop singing is really nothing new.
But really, the history of popular music (and art and writing to a lesser extent) overwhelmingly suggests that creativity in general is short-lived. Very very few performers or bands are vital and interesting for more than two or three records. The proof of that is everywhere, in every genre and every era.
There are some stunning exceptions of course, and part of what makes them stunning is the fact that they are exceptions. Just changing your style every few years though does not a stunning exception make.
In an effort to stay on topic I just listened to the Bowie track and it's okay until the singer comes in. Which probably isn't a good sign when the singer has his name on the tune. But then Bowie's interest in
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Perhaps I'm not expressing myself very well but I stand by what I said, whether you are a painter, a musician or a writer. You develop a talent and experiment with it, you learn to play, to write or paint by looking at what's been done, reading others and listening to sounds. You finally need to break it down again to bits and use what is essential to you, which is most likely your own thing, your style.
mjp
Founding member
I agree.
But what you just said doesn't really have anything to do with jazz or abstract art specifically, while your other post was very specific. Which is why it made me go, huuuuh? The idea that every - or even most - creative types eventually turn to jazz and abstract art is too broad a brush. So to speak.
Those specific things are not everyone's ultimate destination, that's all I'm saying.
But what you just said doesn't really have anything to do with jazz or abstract art specifically, while your other post was very specific. Which is why it made me go, huuuuh? The idea that every - or even most - creative types eventually turn to jazz and abstract art is too broad a brush. So to speak.
Those specific things are not everyone's ultimate destination, that's all I'm saying.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Perhaps not everyone's destination but I would be inclined to say that they are missing something. :D
Ageing in the internet age changes the game too. There was a time you made a record had the radio and toured. Jazz bands old and new had there festivals and clubs as did the lounge artists and Rockin round the clockers. The 60's artists and magazines from the 60's have benefitted from having more cash and more avenues to reach out to there fans who have also grown with them as has every generation since (how else do we explain Kiss and Motley Crue?) Like buknet like the 50 or so Greatful Dead sites there is a mass of Bowie fans interested in anything related to their (our) interest. And as long as there is interest there will be someone who says WOW!! didn't see that coming (recent Dylan stuff Keiths book)-or what a shame that sucked (insert Martin material or your own choice here)…until the next piece emerges from the artist- dead, alive or formally known as Prince.
I'm getting off topic but it will be interesting to see how aging artists and the curators of ageing artists make the shift to mobile device patrons. I think if you release shit people will just ignore it. If there is a museum for hair in Kansas and one for Louis Armstrong then there may be a real and virtual Bowie museum one day since it falls somewhere in between.
I'm getting off topic but it will be interesting to see how aging artists and the curators of ageing artists make the shift to mobile device patrons. I think if you release shit people will just ignore it. If there is a museum for hair in Kansas and one for Louis Armstrong then there may be a real and virtual Bowie museum one day since it falls somewhere in between.
I don't love that new Bowie track, but I like it well enough, which is why I'm glad there's a like button as opposed to a love button. Well pardon me, there is a love button, it's just that we don't have one readily accessible here. There's nothing really atonal about that track at all. The backbone is largely in Major keys, but the auditory complexity is the change from E Major to G Major. So it sounds more complicated than it is.
Bowie also treats these chords as IV chords rather than as I chords, which creates a sense of drifting in no defined key (in other words, the E Major chord is not I of E Major, it's IV of B Major and the G Major is not I of G Major, it's IV of D Major - this approaches changes the scale used to a Lydian mode - I'll leave it at that, unless you are truly interested in more). He also bases key aspects of the vocals on non-chord tones, which further assaults the ear to the point of wondering what's going on. We are used to hearing music lie naturally in a key, even as the keys change. In this one, his vocal confuses the ear through the selection of chordal (key) centers and note choices for the vocals.
I played along with it a few times and his vocal intonation is pretty much spot-on. Whether one likes this track and the jazz-like approach to both the instrumentation and the use of modes, is another story.
Bowie also treats these chords as IV chords rather than as I chords, which creates a sense of drifting in no defined key (in other words, the E Major chord is not I of E Major, it's IV of B Major and the G Major is not I of G Major, it's IV of D Major - this approaches changes the scale used to a Lydian mode - I'll leave it at that, unless you are truly interested in more). He also bases key aspects of the vocals on non-chord tones, which further assaults the ear to the point of wondering what's going on. We are used to hearing music lie naturally in a key, even as the keys change. In this one, his vocal confuses the ear through the selection of chordal (key) centers and note choices for the vocals.
I played along with it a few times and his vocal intonation is pretty much spot-on. Whether one likes this track and the jazz-like approach to both the instrumentation and the use of modes, is another story.
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And the B side...
Skygazer
And in the end...
Something to do on a Sunday morning perhaps, if you're a fan or you could just read his playlist at the bottom:
http://www.openculture.com/2015/07/david-bowie-becomes-a-dj-on-bbc-radio-in-1979.html
and from his 1977 album Low:
http://www.openculture.com/2015/07/david-bowie-becomes-a-dj-on-bbc-radio-in-1979.html
and from his 1977 album Low:
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
I liked the link in the above open culture story to Johnny Rotten's 1977 radio dj stint. And his take on Bowie.
If you have 54 minutes there's this "literary diary" podcast by CBC radio host Eleanor Wachtel (her show is Writers and Company) on glam (with Bowie and others). It's actually good fun (baby baby we like your lips ;-) ):
http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=1524351249
If you have 54 minutes there's this "literary diary" podcast by CBC radio host Eleanor Wachtel (her show is Writers and Company) on glam (with Bowie and others). It's actually good fun (baby baby we like your lips ;-) ):
http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=1524351249
Skygazer
And in the end...
Open culture is a good website, you could spend a decade in there and not get bored - maybe.
Down the right hand side the Great lectures and Great Recordings I like a lot and the adverts are there but not too intrusive.
I will have a listen to the Lydon recording the now.
P.S I have 54 mins somewhere Digney:) - had a quick listen to the CBC show just now,will try to listen to it this week, thanks for that.
Down the right hand side the Great lectures and Great Recordings I like a lot and the adverts are there but not too intrusive.
I will have a listen to the Lydon recording the now.
P.S I have 54 mins somewhere Digney:) - had a quick listen to the CBC show just now,will try to listen to it this week, thanks for that.
For better or worse, Bowie trying to stay weird...,
PhillyDave
“The essential doesn't change.” Beckett
"trying to stay weird...,"
Trying? Nah. I think he naturally is. I do like his work tho.
Trying? Nah. I think he naturally is. I do like his work tho.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
[This video is unavailable.]
number6horse
okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
My gray Monday just got a little grayer. Sad to hear this. He was modest about his musical gifts and saw them as just one facet of his artistry. True enough but it's hard to imagine arena/glam rock, disco or club/dance pop without his input. And what a visual stylist too. He was one of the first to embrace video, along with Queen. R.I.P.
I loved a lot of Bowie. His top 20 were, a part of and still bring me back to, certain parts-good parts of my youth. That's enough for me. I owned 2 Mick Ronson albums (I think there were only 2) because of Bowie. I can still recall seeing him Don Kirshner's "in Concert' on TV with Ronson.
People die-thats the way it goes-but leaving a legacy-this legacy is a life in music well played.
Watch or just listen to a few of these I'm sure they'll make you smile and think the same-well played sir, well played.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...160111/tv-on-the-radio-province-2006-20160111
People die-thats the way it goes-but leaving a legacy-this legacy is a life in music well played.
Watch or just listen to a few of these I'm sure they'll make you smile and think the same-well played sir, well played.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...160111/tv-on-the-radio-province-2006-20160111
Skygazer
And in the end...
I suppose we are all under the influence of Bowie and have sat in our rooms as teenagers, listened and been entranced. Didn't matter what tribe you belonged to :) rocker, mod, punk, new romantic, gay, confused (gay and confused) or none of the above. I can remember at school, even the straightest, hardest boys who weren't that much into music as they were the boxing club, liked Bowie; because he was cool. There was a dark edge to him that made him dangerous, even in spandex.He challenged stereotypes, without ever becoming one himself, unlike a lot of his peers.
I've talked about this subject before here on the forum, so I won't go on and on. Back when I was 14 or so, I looked to the weirdos as a guide on how to lead an interesting life.
Bowie was my Weirdo-in-Chief.
And like very few other bands, Bowie was a constant with me from 14 to my now rapidly advancing age. He always will be. I never got bored or will get bored of the music. The good parts, anyway....
Bowie was my Weirdo-in-Chief.
And like very few other bands, Bowie was a constant with me from 14 to my now rapidly advancing age. He always will be. I never got bored or will get bored of the music. The good parts, anyway....
mjp
Founding member
I have to say that I'm really surprised by the reaction to Bowie's death. I knew there would be a lot of talk about him, but I didn't expect to see the outpouring of grief that seems to be coming from every corner. Everyone's got something to say about how brilliant he was and how important he was to them. I didn't really see that a month ago, or get that impression, you know, just walking around in the world. I don't personally know anyone who's mentioned his name or his music in many years. Not counting this thread, of course. I don't say that to denigrate him, just to explain why I'm surprised by the response to his death.
It reminds me of December 1980, only we didn't have an Internet to grieve on back then. Well, the super nerds did, but not us. Lennon's death was sudden and senseless, and, you know, he was a BEATLE, but if we're being honest (which he and Jesus would want us to be), he was not at the top of his game or exactly relevant to most of the kids when he died. But people don't mourn artists for what they've done lately, they mourn them for the parts they remember and hold dear. Which is exactly as it should be, of course.
But man, you could just feel the sorrow in the air for a few days there when Lennon was murdered. I mean, everyone was just tipped over sideways. People you wouldn't have expected to be upset. Just everyone. Or it seemed like it, anyway. Times being what they are, I doubt the mourning for Bowie will go on quite as long, but the effect he had on people certainly seems to be right up there with Lennon. That's undeniable right now.
It reminds me of December 1980, only we didn't have an Internet to grieve on back then. Well, the super nerds did, but not us. Lennon's death was sudden and senseless, and, you know, he was a BEATLE, but if we're being honest (which he and Jesus would want us to be), he was not at the top of his game or exactly relevant to most of the kids when he died. But people don't mourn artists for what they've done lately, they mourn them for the parts they remember and hold dear. Which is exactly as it should be, of course.
But man, you could just feel the sorrow in the air for a few days there when Lennon was murdered. I mean, everyone was just tipped over sideways. People you wouldn't have expected to be upset. Just everyone. Or it seemed like it, anyway. Times being what they are, I doubt the mourning for Bowie will go on quite as long, but the effect he had on people certainly seems to be right up there with Lennon. That's undeniable right now.
Here's what the our present can do.
The youtube is from a pretty good Canadian talking head, We call him Strombo.
The video sucks-but what is interesting is that there is also a link to Weiland on Howard Stern where Howard nails the interview. I mean nails it. He gets SW to talk about the record biz drugs and SW being raped as a kid. I found all of this just because of a twitter link!?
The word viral is overused but the ability to leverage, morph, share and re imagine anothers thoughts almost instantly may explain why there is so much Bowie content. I also think that since most of us here are music fans we click more (like I did today) on subjects that matter more to us.
The Stern interview where SW mentions Bowie is one of the best jobs by an interviewer I have ever seen-its masterful and seems heart felt. Who knew?Bottom lline for me. Favourite Bowie song-everybody has at least 1.
The youtube is from a pretty good Canadian talking head, We call him Strombo.
The video sucks-but what is interesting is that there is also a link to Weiland on Howard Stern where Howard nails the interview. I mean nails it. He gets SW to talk about the record biz drugs and SW being raped as a kid. I found all of this just because of a twitter link!?
The word viral is overused but the ability to leverage, morph, share and re imagine anothers thoughts almost instantly may explain why there is so much Bowie content. I also think that since most of us here are music fans we click more (like I did today) on subjects that matter more to us.
The Stern interview where SW mentions Bowie is one of the best jobs by an interviewer I have ever seen-its masterful and seems heart felt. Who knew?Bottom lline for me. Favourite Bowie song-everybody has at least 1.