Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Thank you, Digney in Burnaby. I read that before and maybe in here.
The Outlaw Poets of American Poetry
- Thread starter Gerard K H Love
- Start date
mjp, you sound so angry. As a matter of fact, you almost sounded like this when you read my stuff. Except, not as vicious or cusswordy. It almost sounds like you hate poetry. Or maybe you're falling out of love with it.
But I think I can understand why you have an issue with a poet calling themself an outlaw. It's like giving yourself a nickname. It doesn't work unless someone gives you that nickname.
Buk, for example, would never have called himself The Poet Laureate of the Lowlife. But he might have smiled inside at the bestowing of said monicker.
mjp
Founding member
Not poetry. Poets.
mjp
Founding member
Poets as a species.
You know, like Neanderthals, or the French.
That isn't to say there aren't some Neanderthals I could appreciate as individuals. I just don't want to sit around a campfire with a large group of them.
Same thing applies to poets. Most of them are not the kind of people I would spend time with voluntarily. That's all. Life is short. But qualifying that by saying "some poets" strikes me as being cowardly (it's something a poet would say), so I use the blanket classification of poets.
I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding, and hope that no one's feelings were hurt.
God bless you all!
You know, like Neanderthals, or the French.
That isn't to say there aren't some Neanderthals I could appreciate as individuals. I just don't want to sit around a campfire with a large group of them.
Same thing applies to poets. Most of them are not the kind of people I would spend time with voluntarily. That's all. Life is short. But qualifying that by saying "some poets" strikes me as being cowardly (it's something a poet would say), so I use the blanket classification of poets.
I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding, and hope that no one's feelings were hurt.
God bless you all!
mjp
Founding member
And buried me in their important work.
I'm not trying to be anything. These fancy computer word-box-thingies pop up and I put my opinions into them. Just like the rest of you.
Now all of you, go write some poems. I heard Literary Mary is warming up for another issue.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Really!
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
However... sitting around a kitchen table drinking, smoking, talking, and laughing - you may never know you are amongst a poet. (The word is starting to bother me now that I've read it and said it so many times. It doesn't sound like a real word anymore). I suppose I'm fascinated by people when you get them loose and talking - and that's a huge muse. You start to go insane with the thoughts that come out you - no one is really a bad person.
POET
The poet Victor Valoff was not a very good poet. He had a local reputation,
was liked by the ladies and supported by his wife. He was continually
giving readings at local bookstores and he was often heard on the
Public Radio Station. He read in a loud and dramatic voice but the pitch
never varied. Victor was always at climax. That's what attracted the
ladies, I guess. Certain of his lines, if taken separately, seemed to have
power, but when all the lines were considered as a whole, you knew
that Victor was saying nothing, only saying it loudly.
But Vicki, like most ladies, being easily charmed by fools, insisted
upon hearing Valoff read. It was a hot Friday night in a Feminist-Lesbian-
Revolutionary bookshop. No admission. Valoff read for free.
Excerpt of a short story. © Charles Bukowski
The poet Victor Valoff was not a very good poet. He had a local reputation,
was liked by the ladies and supported by his wife. He was continually
giving readings at local bookstores and he was often heard on the
Public Radio Station. He read in a loud and dramatic voice but the pitch
never varied. Victor was always at climax. That's what attracted the
ladies, I guess. Certain of his lines, if taken separately, seemed to have
power, but when all the lines were considered as a whole, you knew
that Victor was saying nothing, only saying it loudly.
But Vicki, like most ladies, being easily charmed by fools, insisted
upon hearing Valoff read. It was a hot Friday night in a Feminist-Lesbian-
Revolutionary bookshop. No admission. Valoff read for free.
Excerpt of a short story. © Charles Bukowski
Last edited by a moderator:
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
I believe I underlined that when I first read it in whichever book it appeared in... however, I have no idea how it pertains to sitting around a kitchen table drinking and laughing?
As if poets weren't bad enough, the term OUTLAW POETS strikes me as totally dumb.
What do they do? Shoplifting, getting a ticket for parking on the wrong side, considering the ticket a poem and the officer a poet, drug dealing, murder?
Anything illegal?
Not saying they should, but writing in an unorthodox way makes none of them outlaw.
A marketing term, yes, I guess that's what it is.
I shouldn't care about it and drink a lot less coffee at this time of the day, it makes me too upset.
What do they do? Shoplifting, getting a ticket for parking on the wrong side, considering the ticket a poem and the officer a poet, drug dealing, murder?
Anything illegal?
Not saying they should, but writing in an unorthodox way makes none of them outlaw.
A marketing term, yes, I guess that's what it is.
I shouldn't care about it and drink a lot less coffee at this time of the day, it makes me too upset.
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
However... getting a parking ticket could be considered mundane. And didn't McCullers say "see what is invisible, and you will see what to write?". Isn't Buk so good, because he "saw as much color in a brick as he did in a rose"? Mundane = good stuff, yes?
I'm on no one's side here, I'm just on hydro.
I'm on no one's side here, I'm just on hydro.
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
Don't many people here write? Don't many people here write poetry? Therefore, aren't many people here being hypocritical?
no. we're being nasty and petty, not hypocritical. all poets are nasty and petty to other poets. it's a rule.
if you want to cut it in the poetry game, you better get on board. unless, of course, you're an Outlaw Poet.
if you want to cut it in the poetry game, you better get on board. unless, of course, you're an Outlaw Poet.
mjp
Founding member
How is it hypocritical to call a group useless just because you happen to be part of the group?
Hypocrisy would be, say, calling yourself an outlaw, and then calling the police when someone robs you.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
What does Outlaw mean here?
I got the impression that when they (S.A. Griffin) named it Outlaw Poetry they were referring to not following the rules of poetry.
Correct me since I am undoubtedly not right.....but is there a school of thought or style that has a certain way poetry is to be written. Therefore Bukowski, who is not included in this collection, was one of the writers to not follow the same old meatloaf way of writing poetry. I might not be wrong.
I got the impression that when they (S.A. Griffin) named it Outlaw Poetry they were referring to not following the rules of poetry.
Correct me since I am undoubtedly not right.....but is there a school of thought or style that has a certain way poetry is to be written. Therefore Bukowski, who is not included in this collection, was one of the writers to not follow the same old meatloaf way of writing poetry. I might not be wrong.
ROC
It is what it is
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
Lolita, it might appear so, but honestly, I often look in the mirror and want to gag. We're not all being hypocritical, necessarily. Some of us are just being honest. I can't stand the average poet. I am a poet. Many of my friends are poets. I like them as people, not as poets, although I might like their poems. It's a separating of the person from the role. The absolute upside down fuckedness of everything in sight forces us to become something we call a poet or artist or whatever. If the world were straight, we would all be shining angel children. I guess.
mjp
Founding member
Yeah. 75 years ago. Before any of the outlaw poets were born.
S.A. Griffin, since you mention him, never lived in a world that would be shocked or offended by the kind of poetry he writes. That trail was blazed a long time ago.
It's so funny and sad, calling yourself an outlaw when the wildest thing you do is drive 2 miles out of your way to buy fair trade coffee beans. Wear jeans with your blazer when you attend college alumni functions. Dress your babies in ironic t-shirts and buy them little sunglasses.
Everybody run! The outlaw poets are coming! Run for your lives!
my wife's parents call me an Inlaw Poet.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
ummmm...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
ummmm...
Lolita Twist
Rose-hustler
I think any poet worth reading isn't evidently a poet at all - just... you know, a person.
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
You're right. Any poet worth reading isn't considered a real poet by the powers that be.
I would rather be published by some barely surviving on a shoe-string small press nobody ever heard of than a university press. Not that I've had any offers to turn down from the academics.
I would rather be published by some barely surviving on a shoe-string small press nobody ever heard of than a university press. Not that I've had any offers to turn down from the academics.
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
To clarify, speaking only for myself, when I disparage poets, what I am criticising is not the creative person per se, but the self-serving, back-stabbing ego mania of the competitive poet who claws his/her way to the top of the dung hill. It's an ugly thing, and so ridiculous, because the larger world doesn't give a fig for poetry. It's the battle of the small pond. When I see it (in others, in myself), I am repulsed. My only desire is to write the best poems I can, and to get them in the hands of people who will appreciate them and hopefully draw some pleasure from them. Being recognized by the masses is monstrous and meaningless. Prizes, awards, prestigious publication have no attraction to me and seem counter productive. Being published by Bill Roberts means a hell of a lot more. That is true distinction.