HenryChinaski
Founding member
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
The Pleasures of the Damned
- Thread starter xxedgexx
- Start date
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
I'm reading PLEASURES OF THE DAMNED (a christmas present) and enjoying the selection. I like the fact the uncollected poems are noted as such. I don't mind that the sources are in the back of the book. My one wish is that they had given the date for each poem at the bottom of the page it's on. The collection covers such a broad period of time, it would be useful to know what decade individual poems are from. But that's a petty gripe. Love the cover and dust jacket design. It will look like hell when it's worn and torn, but very attractive new. I've got the dj in a Brodart protector after reading the posts on how fragile it is. Thanks for the warning.
HenryChinaski
Founding member
somehow i lucked out and got two copies of this. i just put both jackets over one book and have been toting around the one without.
Here's the Washington Post review. Better late than never.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010302976.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010302976.html
excellent review.
finally a reviewer with the insight to see the importance of John Martin and how he shaped Buk's career.
quote:
At last, maybe fans like me won't have to apologize for ranking him among the best.
amen, you and me both, brother.
finally a reviewer with the insight to see the importance of John Martin and how he shaped Buk's career.
quote:
At last, maybe fans like me won't have to apologize for ranking him among the best.
amen, you and me both, brother.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Bill Press (the reviewer) is a friend of mine and a Bukowski collector (that is mentioned at the bottom). Glad to see that they put this in the paper. Delaware's own Bill Press!
Bill
Bill
mjp
Founding member
That's a good one. Though Press makes the common mistake of identifying Linda King as Bukowski's wife. He's certainly not the first to do it, and I guess that's going to keep happening forever.
One other thing that doesn't quite ring true to me - but I have read it in a lot of reviews since Bukowski's death - is that he "set aside" the poems in the posthumous collections. I don't think that's true. It was just plain backlog, wasn't it?
I don't see him sitting at his desk thinking, "Oh, this is a good one! I'll put it in the special box to publish after I'm dead!"
One other thing that doesn't quite ring true to me - but I have read it in a lot of reviews since Bukowski's death - is that he "set aside" the poems in the posthumous collections. I don't think that's true. It was just plain backlog, wasn't it?
I don't see him sitting at his desk thinking, "Oh, this is a good one! I'll put it in the special box to publish after I'm dead!"
Father Luke
Founding member
What is the source of this quote Bill uses at the end of the review:
"invent yourself and then reinvent yourself/change your tone and shape so often that
they can/never/categorize you."
anyone know?
It's similar to a Hemingway quote:
"Tell everybody you live in one hotel and live in another. When they locate
you in the other move to the country. When they locate you in the country
move somewhere else. Work everyday till you're so pooped, about all the
exercise you can face is reading the papers. Then eat, play tennis or swim or
something in a work daze just to keep your bowels moving and the next day
write again." to Thomas Shevlin, 1939 Selected Letters, p 484
"invent yourself and then reinvent yourself/change your tone and shape so often that
they can/never/categorize you."
anyone know?
It's similar to a Hemingway quote:
"Tell everybody you live in one hotel and live in another. When they locate
you in the other move to the country. When they locate you in the country
move somewhere else. Work everyday till you're so pooped, about all the
exercise you can face is reading the papers. Then eat, play tennis or swim or
something in a work daze just to keep your bowels moving and the next day
write again." to Thomas Shevlin, 1939 Selected Letters, p 484
Poem, "no leaders, please". Collected in The Pleasures of the Damned and Come On In!
damn.
hank, do you have a photographic memory?
or just some sort of Bukowski savant?
damn, son. that's some skillz! (I'm very, very street).
hank, do you have a photographic memory?
or just some sort of Bukowski savant?
damn, son. that's some skillz! (I'm very, very street).
Father Luke
Founding member
thanks is always appropriate
thanks hank solo
thanks hank solo
Not really. On the other hand, he KNEW, there's a lot of material left for posthumous publication. He MIGHT have kept certain things back consciously for this. (or rather not keeping them back himself but sending ALL stuff to BSP to do as they wish.)
"Martin of Black Sparrow told me: I've got so many of your poems on backlog that if you died today I could bring out 5 or 6 more books and all of them would be good." (letter to Gerry Locklin, August 2, 1981 in: Reach for the Sun, p30)
I also seem to recall from some other letters, that he often said things like: "After my death John can go on publishing my stuff for several years." (not verbatim) So it would have been the natural way, to keep some of the good work for posthumous books and not only 'rejected' poems, which would make too bad books then.
I was somewhat disappointed with this collection, but that's (almost) always the case with anthologies.
Very few "new" poems, and I wasn't overwhelmed by the few that were there.
Kind of anti-climatic.
The Author's Page mentioned more poems to come, but I think they probably just reprinted it from the last book.
I guess we'll just have to wait for Linda B. to ink a deal for her stash of unpublished Buk. (Think she'll go to Ecco and/or J. Martin?)
Very few "new" poems, and I wasn't overwhelmed by the few that were there.
Kind of anti-climatic.
The Author's Page mentioned more poems to come, but I think they probably just reprinted it from the last book.
I guess we'll just have to wait for Linda B. to ink a deal for her stash of unpublished Buk. (Think she'll go to Ecco and/or J. Martin?)
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
I'm a bit disappointed too. I did some statistics: There's 274 poems in the book. 100 of them are poems from posthumous collections - that's 36,5% (not counting Betting On The Muse and Bone Palace Ballet. They have 7 poems each in Pleasures. If we include them, then it's 114 posthumous poems - which equals 41.6%).
Of those 100 posthumous poems, 26 is from What Matters.. (!) That's a big fraction. There's 11 poems from Come On In, a collection many of us think was bad.
Here's my gripe. How could John Martin put so many posthumous poems in Pleasures, at the expense of famous poems from the collections when Buk was still alive? I have'nt made a list, but I do think that a well-known and famous poem such as "Old Man Dead In A Room" should have been included! And what about "Firestation"? I'm sure we all could find other examples of famous poems which should have been included - right?
That said, I do think it's an ok "Best Of Buk" book, but it's a damn shame that some of the famous poems have been excluded...
Of those 100 posthumous poems, 26 is from What Matters.. (!) That's a big fraction. There's 11 poems from Come On In, a collection many of us think was bad.
Here's my gripe. How could John Martin put so many posthumous poems in Pleasures, at the expense of famous poems from the collections when Buk was still alive? I have'nt made a list, but I do think that a well-known and famous poem such as "Old Man Dead In A Room" should have been included! And what about "Firestation"? I'm sure we all could find other examples of famous poems which should have been included - right?
That said, I do think it's an ok "Best Of Buk" book, but it's a damn shame that some of the famous poems have been excluded...
Last edited by a moderator:
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Tender Bukowski
Great article,
I like this:
"Linda, you brought it to me/when you take it away/do it slowly and easily/make it as if I were dying in my sleep
instead of/in my life, amen."
Great article,
I like this:
"Linda, you brought it to me/when you take it away/do it slowly and easily/make it as if I were dying in my sleep
instead of/in my life, amen."
Just finished reading Pleasures of the Damned. No hurry you know. I took my time.
I strongly disagree with John Martin who says this collection represents "the best of the best". Far from it. Martin has left out so many classics its hard to believe... ("340 dollar horse..." and "we've got to communicate" come to mind.) He seems to be set on mellowing Bukowski. Thats ok, but thats only one of the many aspects of Bukowski's lines.
But still, despite this, about two thirds thru the book, the following impression started grow on me: Buk is going to last. The amount of strong poems is astounding, even in this volume. I found myself noticing poems that had passed me by previously. There are just so many poems printed now, that the mind gets swamped and can't take all of them in. (Apart from Hank Solo that is...) We need more time. With time, the best poems will start to filter thru, while the weaker ones will pass into the background. But this will take time. And it will definitely take someone else than J.M. He's done his part now, and that part is unique in its importance. But its time for him to let go of his editing hold on Bukowski. We need someone with a fresh (and younger) take on Buk's poetry.
So, I'll keep on waiting for a comprehensive "Best of" volume. That volume, when it appears, will definitely be something else; right up there with the rest of "the greats"
I strongly disagree with John Martin who says this collection represents "the best of the best". Far from it. Martin has left out so many classics its hard to believe... ("340 dollar horse..." and "we've got to communicate" come to mind.) He seems to be set on mellowing Bukowski. Thats ok, but thats only one of the many aspects of Bukowski's lines.
But still, despite this, about two thirds thru the book, the following impression started grow on me: Buk is going to last. The amount of strong poems is astounding, even in this volume. I found myself noticing poems that had passed me by previously. There are just so many poems printed now, that the mind gets swamped and can't take all of them in. (Apart from Hank Solo that is...) We need more time. With time, the best poems will start to filter thru, while the weaker ones will pass into the background. But this will take time. And it will definitely take someone else than J.M. He's done his part now, and that part is unique in its importance. But its time for him to let go of his editing hold on Bukowski. We need someone with a fresh (and younger) take on Buk's poetry.
So, I'll keep on waiting for a comprehensive "Best of" volume. That volume, when it appears, will definitely be something else; right up there with the rest of "the greats"
Agreed. What I actually meant was that the ultimate "Best of" will have to evolve "by itself", so to speak, over a greater length of time. It won't be the work of one specific editor. But 100 years from now, I'm sure, a number of "the best" poems will still be around, and they will be considered classics of the period, just like poems by Catullus & Villon are considered classics today.
This is the feeling reading Pleasures of the Damned gave me.
Nice article Ponder. And I agree with most of it. But boy, the name-calling done by those academics. I think its a creative stretch to group Buk with any other writers. And theres not supposed to be any creativity in litcrit, is there?...or is that an art in itself? Only its one inspired by real writers, huh?.
Ponder strikes again! I may actually drink a Hoegaarden with you yet.