Was Bukowski bisexual?

number6horse said:
I doubt Buk was bi. But who knows. He was a great artist and artists come from all walks of life.

No big deal to discuss and explore the evidence, though. You know - macho guys who brag about scoring and start tavern brawls are maybe a LITTLE TOO MANLY ? Hmmm ???

:>)
I agree. I doubt whether Buk was BI, but he certainly exagerrated his sexual encounters with women,fights and athletic prowess. Buk eventually became the quintessential macho caricature of himself through the merging of fact and fiction in his poems, novels and even letters.
A nameless woman told me Buk found it difficult to get and maintain an erection which seems perfectly reasonable given his drinking.I am merely conjecturing but I believe Buk often drank because of his shyness around women. Then he was faced with having to live up to his writings about his prodigious sexual appetite with the same women. The more I read his descriptions of fights at work and at bars, they appear strained. No doubt, he fought other men, but I doubt the quantity and kind of fights he writes about, especially with African-American co-workers so as to be accepted on the job. There is one particular poem he writes about setting a long jump record at Los Angeles High after being provoked by the Phys Ed teacher and ,then never joining the school team. I doubt it.He was more comfortable as a military cadet than in sports. But really, I don't give a shit. I like Buk's writing whether largely fact or fiction.
 
hey
i could care a great deal less than most what bukowski's sexual orientation was...i have posted my opinion prior - i do not research a poet's sexual orientation prior to appreciating his/her works!
anyone here ill at ease with his/her attractions to others?
if so - i hereby post a rainbow...for you who may not raise your heads above the sands - fuck off! you'll not view prisim of color!

rrat
 

SamDusky

Founding member
And I say, Huzzah! river rat, huzzah. It sounds good to me. I'm not quite sure what it means (you'll not view prism of color!), but it sounds damn good to me. And I doubt that there's too many (or any) bigoted people on this site. They wouldn?t be able to stand the heat. From what I know of Buk, he accepted virtually everyone of every stripe; it was just humanity that he had a problem with (a sentiment that I share, on the whole?collectively, people can be an unconscionable lot, unfortunately [present company excepted, of course.]) If people could just wake up and smell the......okay, don?t get me started; I just wanted to say I agreed with you.

SD
 
I hope for your own sakes, that at some point in the near future,some of you good people can find a way of extricating your heads out of your arses for once and for all. What a load of bollocks! I am now going to give you all some top secret, classified information specifically designed to assist you in this process; Charles Bukowski WAS NOT A GAY NAZI. Now, GET A LIFE! Tune in next week to find out if Dear Old Hank was really Charlie Manson with a big belly......
 
You've missed the point of the discussio entirely haven't you?

O and failed to see how it evovled...dear, dear.:eek:
 
Crazy in the ass

There was that one time, recounted somewhere in Notes of a Dirty Old Man, that he accidentally fucked a guy. To be honest, he didn't seem that shook up about it. Then again, he admitted this outright, so if he did it again, especially if he did it on purpose this time, there probably would have been some mention of it.

One other thing - that picture of him with that gay writer. Someone put it up here recently. What was that about?

I remember that piece in Notes... as being mostly sardonic, funny, with some of his wicked observations about matters-sexual. I mean, imagine the Great Lover Bukowski waking up in bed with someone after this wild all-night party"”people stoned and out of their minds"”and he assumes it's a woman without knowing for sure. Then his antics"”Bukowski being Bukowski"”go on from there, like going ahead in his attempt to ream "her" without making sure of the bedmate's gender. I find that hilarious and I think Bukowski meant it to be.

He also makes some funny comments like, well, he once imagined that fucking someone in the ass might be the answer to all of life's problems, or at least to his. That can be a guy thing and not a gay thing. Like, what's it like?"”and then you imagine it as one more unknown in life to expunge by finally having the experience so you no longer have to obsess about it. After all, how many guys haven't obsessed about wanting to buttfukk their girl friends, and did? In the story it seems like he actually went ahead and did it, or gave the funny impression that he did. It was part of his little exposition on his obsession with anal sex as the solution to the riddle of life. I thought it was a funny story at the time, and the point of it, what made it work, at least to me, was that he wasn't a homosexual but here he was, through this unlikely set of circumstances, trying to fuck this guy in the ass! That's what made it funny. I still think it's funny. Maybe he did.

As to his alleged bi-sexuality, I would only go so far to say that Bukowski came in contact with people of all sexual persuasions, including some homosexual writers with odd sexual proclivities and eccentricities, and these people made for good stories, especially because Bukowski felt superior to all of them, or so it seems. He wrote about them as he did with everything else in life and he accepted it all, as it was going on, as fodder for his typer. But that doesn't mean he was getting reamed in the ass or was actively seeking it, though there may have been some minor experimentation (I'm guessing) or curiosity.

I'd go back and reread this piece myself for more of the details but my library was a casualty of my move from CA to AZ years ago. (It's okay because I felt that I'd absorbed most of the beauty and savagery of his writings anyway.) Nevertheless, someone should find this piece and share what he says and look up some of the exact quotes I'm referring to. And of course, he sometimes exaggerated events for humorous effects because he was a poet and not a proctologist.
 
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i laughed hard at that piece, great writing, but myself never got the feeling that he really did buttfuck that guy, i still don't, i mean, calling his mother or whatever he did doesn't really seem likely (am i still at the same story?). more like he found a sleeping naked man in his bed after a night of drinking and made up the story from there. oh well, if he did it would be even funnier
 
Bukowski wasn't gay but his boyfriend was.

I'm bisexual, if I want sex I have to buy it.

My wife is bi-sexual. She says if I buy her something she'll get sexual.

That's all the jokes for now.
 
G

grayxray

I would be suprised if Buk was bi. I would have a hard time believing it as Buk was true to himself, what you saw was what you got. If he was bi then at least one of his lovers would have spilled the beans by now. Secrets like that just don't keep very well when you are doing it with famous people.

Now this is just my opinion.
 
Bukowski wasn't gay but his boyfriend was.

I'm bisexual, if I want sex I have to buy it.

My wife is bi-sexual. She says if I buy her something she'll get sexual.

That's all the jokes for now.


lmao

that's some funny shit
:D

writing about
a homosexual experience
makes a person bi- or homo- ?
not in this person's opinion

in your dreams olaf
 
In your dreams olaf?

eh...what did I say? I never said Bukowski was gay or bi.

He was a straight as an arrow.

Why did I get brought into this?
 
So the last time this came up we all dropped it, because of the controversy
of him being bi or not. And then someone posted the issue months before with the same responses.
We can all agree to disagree- maybe this is an opinion we should all keep to ourselves, and disagree.
And we all do stupid shit when we are drunk and just don't admit it....maybe I can't stick it in a girl, but i sure remember kissing a few! :)
 
hahaha!

The thought did corss my mind that you were just messing!

I'm not gay I just smoke fags. :)
 
Then there's that part in "Remember Pearl Harbor?" "You're so dammed ugly, nobody would want to rape you." reply- "I was worring more about getting myself a little."

The bit about Getting a little PUNK action in Jail. "There are never enough punks to go around so the boys have to make a few extra to fulfill thier needs." reply- "That's sensible."

I've been in jail, and would never think about doing a guy, I wouldn't even write about doing a guy. He had some issues with it I think.
 
Bukowski had sex with a guy? Since a lot of his writing was ambiguous in regard to fact and fiction somehow I find it hard to believe
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
ahhh... the threas that I thought had died!

Yes, he wrote about having sex accidentially with a man. I find this odd, as you would think that he would have to know.

I cannot imagine that he would have made something like this up though, so it has always confused me....

Bill
 
ahhh... the threas that I thought had died!
Yes, he wrote about having sex accidentially with a man. I find this odd, as you would think that he would have to know. I cannot imagine that he would have made something like this up though, so it has always confused me....
Yeah, dead threads come up again like Lazarus.

You're right, Bill, I also always wondered, how he could mistake a man for a girl, even if drunk or it's dark. An asshole is a much different entrance then a pussy. Maybe he intended to butt-fuck that person, which he thought was a girl? But he doesn't write about this variation of sex elswhere, does he? So why would he try it just now. Another possie wouldbe: that guy had vaseline around and in his butt already, so Buk came in as smooth as into a wet pussy, THEN he might mistake the feeling.

concerning the original start of this thread, I go with Bukfan, to state: Norse as well as Cherry were homos, who might have been aware of certain things/feelings more than others, or reflect them in a different way. (I know some homos, who tend to see a homosexual allusion in almost everything.) And Buk sure had a 'soft', sensitive side.

on mjps reference to Linda K. (in his 2nd post of 2/26/2006):
In Loving and Hating Bukowski, she does give thoughts on the subject.

I quote from a passage at the very start:

"The humping guns..." I open the book to a poem and came to the lines. "God tongues out your ass hole." I was shocked at his irreverence to God. "Is Charles Bukowski homosexual?" - "There he is now," said Peter. "He's with Neeli Cherkowski." I looked out the window and two wild looking men were wrestling in the parking lot across the street. Bukowski was about fifty with a Will Rogers hair cut, rather heavy and bellowing, "I can whip your ass, punk." The younger man had long, curly, matted hair and looked like a high school or college student. When Neeli walked in the door Peter, the owner, asked pointedly, "Is Charles Bukowski a homosexual? This lady would like to know." I was startled and Neeli was speechless for a brief moment, then he said, "He doesn't suck my cock."

and much later (at a party):

When I looked in, Bukowski had Steve, the homosexual, by the legs raised in the air and he was dancing him around in circles, laughing and roaring as he danced. Bukowski had been lifting weights and he was very strong. All of a sudden his 44 inch pants, which were two or three sizes too big, fell to the floor, and he was dancing in his boxer shorts. He tripped and fell with Steve. They ended up in a tangled pile on the floor. [...]
I made it to the back door with Bukowski leaning heavily on me. As we got outside he spotted Steve. "Come here and say goodbye, we're leaving." He grabbed hold of Steve and gave him a big sloppy French kiss. I thought, Jesus Christ, what in the hell is he doing. Steve looked at me in shock and then gave me a small kiss. I waved goodbye to all and we got into the car. I thought of my first meeting with Bukowski with his young pal, Neeli, and wondered again if he was bisexual.

end of quote.

of course all this doesn't mean anything.

My personal oppinion is, that IF he had a true tendency in this direction he Would've had the guts to live it out open, so we would know. But then he grew up in 'the old L.A.', and thus was a little onesided/traditional in terms of sexuality anyway (see the fact that he never got down on a girl before age 50). So, we're back to the start. (till this thread dies and reincarnates again.)
 
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1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
ahhh... the threas that I thought had died!

Yes, he wrote about having sex accidentially with a man. I find this odd, as you would think that he would have to know.

I cannot imagine that he would have made something like this up though, so it has always confused me....

well this may not be entirley related to this thread, and I was going to start a new one, but this ones been so fun to read....speaking of made up (?) stories. the one (one of the ones) that I have a hard time believing is the account that he related in a letter to Ivan Suvanjieff,on pg. 216 in "reach for the sun" I think that it may also have possibly been in "Notes" and maybe a poem somewhere too? anyway, its of buk staggering down an unknown street in an unknown city(maybe philly or east kansas) Drunk/hungover, beaten,bloodied and robbed. lost and trying to find his room.when he comes upon a man with his eyeball dangling on his cheek, ("I saw one of his eyeballs dangling...it was out of his head... dangling on a thin thread... it swung back and forth upon the thread as he walked... like a pendulum...") then he goes on to write about what a coward he feels because he was unable to stop and help the fellow. A great story, and a really strong underlying statement. but c'mon... do you really think...?
 
nobody is purely heterosexual.
buk exerted machoism, and this is where i think we can compare him to hemingway especially.
but buk's stemmed from childhood, learning to be tough...heming's from childhood, being treated / even dressed like a girl.

i think sexuality is a choice so i think buk chose to be straight. one or two -same-sex experiences don't make somebody gay or bi, in my opinion. things just happen.

^it was illogical for me to write nobody is purely one sexuality, then write that people choose. i guess i meant everyone can choose, but nobody is purely one way or the other
 
where B would show him his pecker and asked Norse to show his in return.

If he was sober, then I dunno...but if he was drunk I don't think it means anything. It's not all that odd if somebody does something like that while he's drunk. Alcohol makes weard things happen.
 

mjp

Founding member
Come on man, that's such bullshit, that things happen that are completely out of character when you are drunk. Maybe things that you don't readily embrace, or don't like to admit about yourself come out more readily when you are drunk, but alcohol doesn't change your sexual preference.

I've been drunk enough to forget my name, but I could still tell the difference between a man and a woman. And even if you were drunk enough to be unable to tell the difference, there's no way you'd be able to fuck anyone in that condition anyway.
 

1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
I've been drunk enough to forget my name, but I could still tell the difference between a man and a woman. And even if you were drunk enough to be unable to tell the difference, there's no way you'd be able to fuck anyone in that condition anyway.

I once confused my freinds goldfish for a women. so I don't know, maybe its possible to change sexual preferences under the influence of substances.
 
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