Why the Beatles?

[d gray]

i love the one of them backstage warming up. and that early one - are they
rehearsing for a show? they wouldn't have worn that for a concert back then i don't
think. maybe a live/bbc show.

here's apparently the only shot of them the night they hung out with elvis.
how can there not be more photos from that night i'll never know. and a goofy
one of lennon.

 

[mjp]

It looks like Paul is still playing guitar, althought that must be a bass, as I doubt they'd play with three guitars and no bass. Pre-'61 Hofner apparently.

Definitely a bass, though I can't find it in the Beatles Gear book. Maybe he was borrowing it? The picture has to be 1965 or 66. Harrison (and Lennon) got their first Strats in February of 65.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

That can't be '65 or '66; their hair is way too short and it looks like a high school auditorium stage. All the equipment appears to be borrowed now that I look at it again. I'm not sure if that's a sonic blue Strat or not, but this second shot from the same show is lighted differently and it looks closer to a natural finish:

 

[mjp]

Now that I look at some more pictures it couldn't be 66, but I still think it could be early 65. It's hard to place these pictures because they aren't playing their own instruments (even Ringo's drums are borrowed - that's not a Beatles logo on the bass drum head), and they are wearing those god damn turtlenecks. Only Ringo is in a suit. That would be a hell of a high school auditorium stage though, those are some elaborate curtains. These are crazy pictures indeed.

The funny thing is there are probably a thousand people who could glance at that and say, "What are you, stupid? That's Pumpkinbury, April of 1965, using The Manic Chimneysweep's equipment. You want to hear a tape of the show?"

 

[d gray]

i don't think that could be later than '63 judging by the hair. and the ears.

 

[Bukfan]

Yes, it's the same short hair they had in '62-'63. (Early) '64 at the latest, would be by guess...

 

[Purple Stickpin]

All evidence would indicate that it's August 1963 at the Odeon. The Beatles shared the bill with Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas and it would appear that they borrowed their equipment as you can see in the Dakotas photo I've attached. Not sure where the guitar George is using came from.

 

[mjp]

August '63 is when the With The Beatles cover was shot, so the turtlenecks fit in to that time frame. And that does look like The Dakotas guitars (and bass).







Want to hear a tape of the show?
(No, I don't really have one.)

 

[hank solo]

Wrong date?

 

[Composer]

You have to understand how boring shit was to appreciate how new and exciting something might have sounded at the time.

Exactly. Sometimes an artist breaks new ground, becomes extremely popular and their style is imitated to the point where the original work sounds cliched, or at least commonplace. I'm old enough to have heard "Sgt Pepper's" when it was released, and I still remember being constantly surprised that the melodies and harmonies often did NOT go where I expected. I agree with Leonard Bernstein that "She's Leaving Home" is as good as Schubert. And Ringo's drum part on the Reprise of the title song was unique.

 

[d gray]

wow -

[This video is unavailable.]

 

[esart]

Back when this thread was started, I was too fucking pissed off to join in. It's taken over a year, but I'm here. Probably too late. Probably a good thing. It's probably well over, old news, dead and gone. Someone wants to talk about Sgt Peppers? What makes a good musician? Ringo as a drummer? Drummers in general? I'm here mother fuckers! Bring it on! Let's have a resurrection.

...or not.

I'm always late to the party, or I don't show up at all. Because I loath parties. This time, I was too introverted to spout my opinions, but then I'd come back and read a little more and realize, just because I quit music after 20 years don't disqualify me from having a valid opinion. Has been I might be, but I know what I know, so tell me again how Colaiuta is so much better than Ringo. I have a joke about Colaiuta by the way. He only knows how to play in one time signature: 1/1! Ever hear him play straight? He sucks. Which moves us onto bass players. The poor, poor bass players that have to play any normal tracks with Colaiuta! They'd take Ringo any day! Because they'd rather play MUSIC! Music requires a rhythm section in most cases. .........Oh I can go on, but I can wait, or I can stop.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Do please go on!

 

[hoochmonkey9]

I am the walrus.

that's Dr. Walrus, to you!

 

[hank solo]

Hey, you said that you'd won Miss Canada. What's all this finalist business?

 

[d gray]

i'd love to read the one linda sent him that pissed him off so much -

http://www.lettersofnote.com/search/label/paulmccartney

 

[mjp]

http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/day/2012/12/09

 

[skiroomalum]

After reading that, I have never felt so old. Funny that Elvis died only three years before that. I guess that all now passes
for ancient history.

 

[d gray]

these are so great! one of the craziest coolest grooviest etc bass players ever.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Those are great tracks that show the Rickenbacker 4001 with neck pickup soloed (and played with a pick) in all its glory. And although I love Rita as a complete track, the bass is somewhat pedestrian. But Bulldog rocks.

 

[mjp]

That's a bass through a DI?! The first one sounds almost acoustic to me. Like a microphone near the bass while he was playing to a track. If that's the direct "sound" of a Rickenbacker...I can't even believe it. Sounds like a tennis shoe with a loose, flappy sole.

Though I was just reading the other night about the single version of Revolution and was surprised to learn that the guitar sound wasn't a fuzz box or an amp but a guitar direct into the console then distorted by overdriving it there. Which is weird, since you could conceivably make a guitar sound kind of like that at the time using, you know, the available guitar tools.

So soundwise I guess the "bass" in those videos shouldn't surprise me. It's the end result that matters.


Sorry, jargon alert: a DI is a box that you plug an instrument in to when you want to play it not through an amp but directly into a mixing console. DI = direct input.

 

[d gray]

But Bulldog rocks.

yeah! his bass part was always my favorite part of that tune.

what an insane gift for melody that guy had.

really good drummer too, which makes his bass playing even better.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

That's a bass through a DI?!

I don't know if it's direct or not (probably is though), but it's clearly a Rick with old flats (possibly the original strings from when the bass was given to Paul by John Hall in '65) and the neck pickup soloed. Portions of the track are very muffled (typical Beatles studio shenanigans) while other portions are far more clear.

Contrast that with Squire's sound on Roundabout (I know, I know, just listen for a few seconds, geez), which is essentially the same bass with Rotosound roundwounds and the bridge pickup soloed:

[This video is unavailable.]

In between the two (but somewhat closer to Squire's tone because of roundwounds), likely with both pickups, is Roger Glover's sound on Machine Head:

 

[mjp]

Roundabout (I know, I know, just listen for a few seconds, geez)

Dude, I'm 53 years old. I've heard Roundabout and Highway Star about 846,912 times! ;)

Never heard just the bass though.

Can't say I'm a Rickenbacker fan. I almost bought a 620 about a hundred years ago when I was in a punk band, but only because it looked cool (it still does) and the guy only wanted $200 for it. But when I plugged it in to my Marshall (with the preamp/gain at 10, where it usually was), it just howled and squealed like petulant monkey. So I had to pass on it.

As far as Mr. McCartney, Squire, et al are concerned, I like bass. Like James Jamerson at Motown, or one of the 20 guys who played with James Brown, or more preferably, a Jamaican sound system at sunrise when they've been gradually cranking it up all night. When I was mixing live reggae I always got a proper bass sound, which usually meant someone from the venue was accosting me every few minutes, screaming, "TURN DOWN THE GOD DAMNED BASS!" That's how I knew it was right where it should be. Of course reggae is not what you'd call typical when it comes to where the bass lives in the mix.

So those Rickenbacker "bass" sounds aren't really up my alley, so to speak.

 

[d gray]

amazing vocals and lennon's great caveman bass playing. didn't know it was him!

 

[mjp]

amazing vocals and lennon's great caveman bass playing.

Caveman bass - that's good. Lennon once said about Helter Skelter, "I've never listened to it properly, it was just a noise."

Lead vocals on Beatles songs were all over the place, but their harmonies were always tight. No easy feat, but a side effect of harmonizing for so many years. They knew right where to go with each other. George Martin talks about painstakingly walking them through Because note by note, and I'm sure he did, but if you listen to the harmonies on their early records, which certainly were not painstakingly recorded, they rarely falter on harmonies.

it's clearly a Rick with old flats (possibly the original strings from when the bass was given to Paul by John Hall in '65)...

That reminds me, I read an article in Guitar Player back in the late 70s written by an American guy who did some maintenance on The Beatles' guitars on their last tour. He said he'd never seen instruments that had been neglected like that. He talked about spending an hour just scraping the accumulated filth off of them before he could work on them.

So it shouldn't come as a shock that McCartney's flat wound strings were old. They apparently weren't very fastidious when it came to their tools.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

That's Lennon on Fender Bass VI (essentially a baritone guitar - light gauge bass strings but tuned E A D G B E like a guitar), which he used on a couple of other tracks; likely Rocky Raccoon and The Long and Winding Road (and possibly Let it Be; perhaps either the single version or album version, with Paul sneaking in a bass dub on the other). A right-handed Fender Jazz bass worked its way into the arsenal during the Get Back session in case Paul was playing piano so the "live, no over-dubs" concept could be retained, but it may not have been used in favor of the Bass VI. (By the way, Paul played a left-handed Jazz bass on several White Album tracks - Yer Blues, Glass Onion, and While My Guitar Gently Weeps, for starters.)

George likely played the Fender Bass VI on Honey Pie, Birthday, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Carry that Weight/Golden Slumbers, and Old Brown Shoe.

As for Back in the USSR, evidence indicates that bass parts from John, George and Paul all ended up on the mixed version.

Regarding McCartney and gear, when once asked what type of bass strings he used, his reply was "long shiny ones." No, not a gear head.

 

[d gray]

Regarding McCartney and gear, when once asked what type of bass strings he used, his reply was "long shiny ones." No, not a gear head.

i remember an article in an old bass player mag that asked all the top bass guys what strings they used - they all gave detailed answers and paul said "i don't know, they come in a little plastic bag."

i also remember john lennon saying in an interview that paul was "coy" about his bass playing.

maybe he plays it down for some reason, i don't know why. wants it to be all about the music, maybe.

 

[mjp]

Or it just doesn't interest him as a subject.

I've played with people who are gear nerds and others who look at their musical equipment as a tool, like a hammer or a pliers, and there's not much to say about a hammer.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Let's not kid ourselves about McCartney's ego; it is as large as any musician's. But based on interviews I've seen and read, he's more focused on his songwriting and overall musical output than on his bass playing. His comments about actually playing the bass are largely confined to how he ended up doing it (George and John looked the other way when Stu Sutcliff left and McCartney had no guitar, as his had recently crapped the bed - this was '61 if I recall) and how much he admired, in particular, James Jamerson.

So, my take on a subject that might have been more fair to discuss 40 years ago, is that McCartney may have been "coy" about his bass playing because what he wanted to be known for was his songwriting ability. No doubt he has written a large number of great songs, but if you asked me to name my top 20 Beatles songs, 16 of them would have been written by Lennon, two by McCartney, and two by Harrison (give or take). Post-Beatles, he makes up some ground (even through 1980, if you want to draw the line there for purposes of fair comparison), but he doesn't surpass Lennon in that regard. But at the end of the day, McCartney will forever be known in smaller circles as being one of the most innovative bass players in the history of R&R. His contribution to modern bass playing is largely unrecognized by most musicians, let alone the general public. But in bass circles, he's a flippin' GOD, as well he should be.